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Musa PvP 1v1 video - AP vs Accuracy discussion

38 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Hi all, I made a 1v1 pvp video with some helpful tips integrated into it, which demonstrate reactive gameplay. It's just a for-fun video that I shot with some guild mates and friends in the mix. Please keep in mind these clips were chosen for entertainment, not perfection! You'll see a mixture of almost all the classes in it. Let me know what you think!

 

 

AP vs ACCURACY discussion below!

Edited by Bearborne
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Posted

Practice getting behind the target after your CCs.

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Posted

White or Black Bow?

Nice video

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Posted

White or Black Bow?

Nice video

It's a white bow in the video.

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Posted (edited)

Hi all, I made a 1v1 pvp video with some helpful tips integrated into it. It's just a for-fun video that I shot with some guild mates and friends in the mix. You'll see a mixture of almost all the classes in it. Let me know what you think!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n8v0SsbqmI

the aggressive positioning and pressure on the rangers were nicely done....really highlights the beauty of blader 

Edited by Animal
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Posted

the aggressive positioning and pressure on the rangers were nicely done....really highlights the beauty of blader 

Thanks!

My first character was a Ranger and I felt the worst situations I ran into was when a person was literally on my ass. It can be a bit hard to aim directional shots as a ranger with players up close and constantly behind you.

White or Black Bow?

Nice video

I prefer the full AP route :) The only accuracy I'll be taking is whatever passive from my liverto, and any potential bhegs gloves down the line.

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Posted

whats your build look like? also i noticed youre not using coral rings or anything like that, why the full AP preference? do you feel like you miss a lot when you fight high DP players?

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Posted (edited)

Hi all, I made a 1v1 pvp video with some helpful tips integrated into it. It's just a for-fun video that I shot with some guild mates and friends in the mix. You'll see a mixture of almost all the classes in it. Let me know what you think!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n8v0SsbqmI

Nice vid, you got good pressure and aggression. 

If I'd comment on anything it would be that you should try and avoid using blooming with carver and rather use blind thrust for even more damage 

WHAT COSTUME IS THAT?!

Edited by Kraved

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Posted

Really nice video man, keep it up !

Was wondering, how you could dash that fast. Was it done with animation cancel ? Thanks

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Posted (edited)

Really nice video man, keep it up !

Was wondering, how you could dash that fast. Was it done with animation cancel ? Thanks

Thank you! This is one of our 'newer' ways of dashing which uses Chase 2 combined with Chase ultimate. How the skills works is you dash forward, and then you cancel your dash(ulti) with another dash. This method of dashing also grants you greater distance if you use it correctly.

All you need are these two skills, and to bind a key(any) to 'WW' which you can find in your input menu under settings near the bottom. I personally bound 'WW' to 'F' since I don't use any skills related to the 'F' key, however it's all personal preference. Binding it to 'F' also makes the transition to this dash much easier since you might have been using F cancel to dash before. To actually use it hold 'WW' and LMB to dash very fast, or just simply hold 'WW' and press LMB and whichever speed you prefer. You can achieve some long distance traveling by holding 'WW' and pressing LMB in the middle of your dash.

 

 

Nice vid, you got good pressure and aggression. 
If I'd comment on anything it would be that you should try and avoid using blooming with carver and rather use blind thrust for even more damage 

WHAT COSTUME IS THAT?!

Thanks I appreciate it! The costume is the Karlstein outfit with my hat being hidden. I used the Turquoise dye boxes to get the darkest blue I could find, since the darkest blue seemed darker than the black dye itself. Would you happen to be referring to @4:38 in the video? If so you might notice that my blind thrust was on cool down, so I went for some style points :) The beauty of a Musa is the variation of combos that we have to remain unpredictable. That and some uncommon combo's flow very nicely when you mix up your skill usages that might be on cooldowns. There's definitely a lot of inefficiency in my video but for all practical purposes it's more for entertainment. For example you'll notice that the footage lacks back attacks and successful blind thrusts. I have a lot of footage and the reason I chose the clips in the video is solely to show different yet interesting scenarios. Similarly I have footage of me perfectly KO'ing players with a DB -> BT -> RS -> Blaze -> DB(full) -> RS combo but since I routinely use that combo, I don't think it would be interesting to watch over and over.

 

whats your build look like? also i noticed youre not using coral rings or anything like that, why the full AP preference? do you feel like you miss a lot when you fight high DP players?

It might be easier to say what I don't have. I don't use the basic slash, retaliation, divider, whirlwind, kicks, arrow grapple, or evasive shot. Everything else I try to max out including the passives. I believe the passives are important to squeeze every single bit of damage/defense we can. I'll answer your AP question below since I've been getting this question a lot :)





AP vs Acc discussion

I've had a lot of PM's and posts mention my lack of accuracy, and I went ahead and revisited my claim on accuracy since I have both AP andaccuracy offhands at +15. People were mainly pointing out that some of my attacks were missing entirely so I went ahead and ran some extensive tests last night with a guildmate that was also curious about the benefits of AP vs accuracy as well. We did this for a long time and I documented most of the work via video -- if there is interest in it I can slap a video together in regards to ap vs acc. As of right now I stand by the fact that I believe full AP is stronger than having Acc in PvP. I'm a very skeptical person and especially in this game, I feel that people tend to parrot information that they blindly trust, and pass on that information to people just because they read it somewhere on a reddit/forum post. All the testing I've done is on my own since I rather see it to believe it. I'd have no issue switching to more accuracy based gear since we all strive to be better. The issue is that I don't see it being better through testing, therefore I don't see a need for it right now. Lastly, it's obviously wise to pick up ancient core combo + bhegs, but these items are future commodities that add on to overall damage. You'll see my explanation below.

The tests I ran were very simple so please pitch in if you disagree with how I approached it, and I can retest it if your method makes more sense. The tests were run 50 times each(each offhand, so 200 times total... believe me people, this took a long time to do). The gear I used was the same gear you see in my video in the beginning, simply alternating offhands for AP and accuracy:

Test #1: How many rising storm spams does it take to kill a player, and how much total time(seconds) did it take?
AP offhand:
Dealt more 'random' damage, however remained consistently and potentially higher. When I say potentially higher, I mean that compared to accuracy offhand it had much more potential for higher damaging burst.

Acc offhand: Dealt a steady stream of constant damage, however lower than that of the AP offhand. In all of the cases the accuracy offhand was slower in killing someone in time, and also took more rising storms to kill someone.

Overall test: Using the AP offhand had marginally faster kill times and took less rising storm spams to kill a player. AP offhand had more 'random' damage, however higher overall burst damage. Accuracy offhand was a steady stream of very average hits that did nearly the same amount of damage per rising storm.

Test #2: Measure total damage of Dragon's bite -> Blind Thrust -> Blooming -> Rising Storm -> Blaze -> Full Dragon's bite combo:
AP offhand: Out of both offhands this had a much higher average amount of damage, and was the only offhand out of both that was able to completely 1-Combo-KO my guild mate who was helping me test this. It either killed my test target, or left the test target with very low life(as seen in the end of my video in my first post). There was a few anomalies where it did indeed miss my target, and resulted in 'bad' damage, however these 'bad' cases were the average case for an accuracy offhand.

Acc offhand: Accuracy offhand was worse in overall average, and overall amount of HP left after the combo. There was a small handful of times where the accuracy offhand left my target with very little hp, but this was only 3-4 times out of 50, and the overall average was still worse then that of AP offhand.

 


Why are we seeing these results?
I have a firm belief that accuracy is an overstated stat for Musa/Maehwa, however accuracy still remains different per class basis. In my honest opinion you are fine with a Liverto, food, and guild buff. The reason behind this is that many people don't realize that a lot of Musa skills have added accuracy buffs -- literally almost all the main ones we use, check it out for yourselves on the skill tooltips. Additionally some players mentioned that I miss hits in my original video, but if I had an accuracy offhand that doesn't mean I would have necessarily landed those hits either. There is still a chance that you'll be missing attacks no matter what, and that's a fact of pvp life. Oppositely there are many occasions were I landed extremely hard hits that would theoretically counter the numbers of missing a hit, something an accuracy offhand would not be capable of ever achieving.

Last thoughts: Accuracy offhand versus AP offhand is a playstyle preference. It's a fact that accuracy offhand will help you land your CC's more reliably. My counter argument is that Musa's have so many different types of CC's that you should be cycling through them if they fail to land -- you need to know your back up utility skills like the back of your hand. If you're relying on a one trick combo all the time then you'll sadly be transparent and people will eat through you once they realize you can't function with you 'main' CC skills on cool down. It will boil down to, would you rather have more potential burst or would you rather do less but consistent damage. I rather jump in an do as much damage as I can in the little time that I have rather then sticking around waiting for consistent damage. Different people play differently :) I rather miss a small number of hits and risk much higher damage. Similarly in GvG you're not meant to stick around in one general area. You're role is to dash in, lay down damage, and dash the hell out.

 


I'm very open for discussion on this topic, I just hope for posts that hold evidence. At the moment I don't see much of a benefit to accuracy but would love to be persuaded otherwise.

Edited by Bearborne
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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the vid. I noticed that when I try to dragonbite after a knockdown it does it behind me. Its great that I get out of a tight spot but I can't really counter hit well like how you do in the video. Any tips? 

 

 

Edited by pindip
Typeo
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Posted

The game is centred around burst.  I would rather have a 70% chance to OHKO a target then 100% chance to get the target to 10% hp.  If the target is left alive, he can easily pot back to full HP or otherwise reverse kill you with a OHKO combo.  For that reason, AP offhand is considerably better than Acc offhand.  Not to mention, you can easily attain similar Acc values from other sources, e.g. accessories, buffs, etc.

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Posted

@Bearborne

Awesome work - thx for posting this :)

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Posted

That's some really skilled gameplay right there, thanks! :) 

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Posted

Thanks for the vid. I noticed that when I try to dragonbite after a knockdown it does it behind me. Its great that I get out of a tight spot but I can't really counter hit well like how you do in the video. Any tips? 

 

 

I'm not entirely sure I understand but I think you're saying that when you hold dragon bite while stunned, you don't hit your target? If this is the case there could be desyncing issues from where ever you're located. If you find that you cannot land dragon's bite and tend to fly past the person you're hitting, you can hold RMB and then use dragon's bite. This will allow you to step back and then thrust forward similarly to how dragon's bite used to work. The advanced technique would be to RMB behind your target before you use dragon's bite or any CC you have.

 

The game is centred around burst.  I would rather have a 70% chance to OHKO a target then 100% chance to get the target to 10% hp.  If the target is left alive, he can easily pot back to full HP or otherwise reverse kill you with a OHKO combo.  For that reason, AP offhand is considerably better than Acc offhand.  Not to mention, you can easily attain similar Acc values from other sources, e.g. accessories, buffs, etc.

Couldn't agree more -- very solid point! Respect points for you as well, you're a very solid dueler :)

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Posted

Awesome video and tips!  Also, the Blader class lead from my guild came up with the same conclusions when comparing AP/acc offhands through numerous tests as well.  It reall all depends on playstyle, if you prefer a little more burst go AP, if you prefer more consistent dmg go acc.  Keep it up!

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Posted

Personally i prefer a solid CC chain...so i run Acc offhand ATM

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Posted

Awesome video and tips!  Also, the Blader class lead from my guild came up with the same conclusions when comparing AP/acc offhands through numerous tests as well.  It reall all depends on playstyle, if you prefer a little more burst go AP, if you prefer more consistent dmg go acc.  Keep it up!

Cheers I appreciate it! There are a few other reasons to go full AP, especially with the anticipation of getting bhegs gloves in the very least(everyone should be saving their bhegs scrolls every day). I would simply use accuracy while leveling but when you're building your end game set, might as well build around AP. There is a reason why AP gear is so expensive and nearly always sold out :D

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Posted (edited)

@Bearborne

Question: Are you getting accuracy from another source like Bheg's or alchemy stone? If so, having accuracy offhand might be redundant since it lowers overall AP for accuracy that you already have. If you do have those would you mind repeating those tests without Bheg's or alchemy stone. I know everyone should strive for boss armor, but I for one am having a hard time getting it to drop. I am curious if I should use AP offhand even before getting those.

 

I appreciate the testing you've done, BTW.

Edited by Nimalla

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Posted

nice video, you really showed that musa can handle with every class.

btw, how many skill points do you have on evasion an AP passive?

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Posted (edited)

@Bearborne

Question: Are you getting accuracy from another source like Bheg's or alchemy stone? If so, having accuracy offhand might be redundant since it lowers overall AP for accuracy that you already have. If you do have those would you mind repeating those tests without Bheg's or alchemy stone. I know everyone should strive for boss armor, but I for one am having a hard time getting it to drop. I am curious if I should use AP offhand even before getting those.

 

I appreciate the testing you've done, BTW.

No problem! The only accuracy tests that were done were under the ranger forums, but I feel that every class should test for accuracy as the mechanics are slightly different for each class.

During the testing I did not have Bhegs gloves, food, or an Alchemy Stone that provides accuracy. The only source of accuracy I had was using a Liverto, and alternating between AP and accuracy offhand. My target had 180 DP during the whole test. It might be useful to run the tests on a warrior/valk that has ~220+ DP, but if I'm being honest I would not want to optimize myself to be able to take down targets with abnormally stacked mounts of DP. I ignore them 100% of the time in any open world combat.

Also just to be clear I feel that it's best to use an accuracy offhand while you're leveling. Here's another interesting bit. I'm soloing at pirates to get to 56 and have a particular 'hidden' area that I farm(no snipers or crazy jacks). I brought my accuracy offhand and averaged the amount of time it takes me to clear a full rotation. Over the course of an hour for each offhand(2 hours total), I averaged a clearing speed of around 3:15 minutes for each offhand. In 'end-game' PvE the accuracy and AP offhands were the same clear speed. If they are by any means different, then the difference is not marginal or noticeable at all.

With burst advantage that the AP offhand has in PvP, I feel it's best to use the AP offhand around level 55. I say this because accuracy and AP offhands seem the same with level 55+ content. This is also with the anticipation of building a set around bhegs gloves, which literally anyone could potentially get on a daily basis from scrolls. You'll only make yourself more powerful once you attain a pair of gloves. I can't speak for the upcoming content though, as we're getting a delivery unlike any other region(valencia without awakenings).

 

nice video, you really showed that musa can handle with every class.

btw, how many skill points do you have on evasion an AP passive?

Thanks! I always have trouble with high DP warriors and valks. They have the potential to out-sustain a Musa pretty easily so it's never a clear cut fight, nor are they short. I max those passives as much as I can. I feel that maximizing stats for a Musa is very important since it takes us relatively more effort to kill others, versus the killing-time of a class like Sorceress/Ranger for example. While leveling I would max the AP passive early on since it's only 27 skill points for 9 AP, and inject into the passive evasion later when you get all your main DPS skills.

Edited by Bearborne

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Posted

@Bearborne you use Agerian ? and tell me why ?

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Posted

@Bearborne you use Agerian ? and tell me why ?

Could You quote him where he wrote that he got Agerian?

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Posted

Could You quote him where he wrote that he got Agerian?

in the moive you see the items....

 

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Posted

@Biost0ne

LOL :)

So I am connecting to that Question. Why Agerian?!

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