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Why don't crafted items always sell for a profit?


29 posts in this topic

Posted

On some items that can be produced with professions or workers, the finished item sells for less than the sum of the materials that made it. 

For example, just now I checked prices on the Intermediate Cooking Utensil.

Minimum list price and after-tax price for materials: 47,655 and 30,976.

Maximum list price and after-tax for materials: 62,567 and 40,669.

The item's minimum and maximum list price: 29,103 and 39,375

The item's after-tax sales revenue: 18,917 and 25,594.

Why is there a disincentive to crafting the item? Is that working as intended or a flaw in the system? If it is working as intended, what is the rationale? 

It mean that if I want the item, and I'm willing to come up with the materials by gathering or processing, I'm better off selling the mats and buying the item on the Marketplace if anyone was dumb enough to craft one to sell. After I've gone to the work and/or expense to come up with the materials, it's an effective penalty on turning them into something I can use or sell. 

Why?

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Posted

Blame the british for that 35% tax.

Lets go dump some tea in the harbor, boys!

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Posted (edited)

supply and demand , the demand for the materials is higher (because they have other uses)

if more people sold the cooking stations they would go up in price because they'd be bought up quickly

Edited by Burhead

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Posted

Blame the british for that 35% tax.

Lets go dump some tea in the harbor, boys!

King George III : Or you just buy Premium Package for shelving 20% Tax from Royal Market. Its a privillege to live in my land. Any rebel colonists shall be PK by my Red Coats

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Posted

Blame the british for that 35% tax.

Lets go dump some tea in the harbor, boys!

This! ^^
 

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Posted

It's a flaw in the system. Black Desert's marketplace restrictions serves its purpose(to prevent players using it to transfer silver between players), but it comes at the expense of ruining the economy and disincentivizing certain aspects of crafting.

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Posted

supply and demand , the demand for the materials is higher (because they have other uses)

if more people sold the cooking stations they would go up in price because they'd be bought up quickly

I don't think they have an automated system in place to modify the price range. Milk for example sells instantly at max price and it's still only 591 after 360k+ sales.

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Posted

Same goes for stuff like leather. If you gather lizard hide its like 1.7k per Hide on my server. If you process it into Hard hide you need 5 pieces wich means around 8-9k but sells for like 8k max. Then if you process it further you need 10 pieces for Fine Hard Hide and you sell of rlike 29k but that means i need 80k in hard hide to get 30k out of it. Even if i get 2 pieces while processing / drying i wont be able to make a profit out of it. 

 

So why do we invest energy and then loose out on money while we could sell base items on the market and get more out of it? 

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Posted

Same goes for stuff like leather. If you gather lizard hide its like 1.7k per Hide on my server. If you process it into Hard hide you need 5 pieces wich means around 8-9k but sells for like 8k max. Then if you process it further you need 10 pieces for Fine Hard Hide and you sell of rlike 29k but that means i need 80k in hard hide to get 30k out of it. Even if i get 2 pieces while processing / drying i wont be able to make a profit out of it. 

 

So why do we invest energy and then loose out on money while we could sell base items on the market and get more out of it? 

 for processing, you get multiple end products. So for example you use 5 pieces 8-9 k worth, you end up with 2-4 processed products. Meaning you end up with 16 to 36 k worth of finished material. There is the profit

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Posted

 for processing, you get multiple end products. So for example you use 5 pieces 8-9 k worth, you end up with 2-4 processed products. Meaning you end up with 16 to 36 k worth of finished material. There is the profit

Sure... You get more product, just the price is lower than material cost of 1 items. You invest 9k silver, you get products, you sell it in 12k price and you get 7,8k silver when you sell it.. :D You get 2-4 products after professional 10 maybe, but your average  amount of output is 1,5-2 before this  profession level. Crafted items don't follow the supply-demand prices.

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Posted

Sure... You get more product, just the price is lower than material cost of 1 items. You invest 9k silver, you get products, you sell it in 12k price and you get 7,8k silver when you sell it.. :D You get 2-4 products after professional 10 maybe, but your average  amount of output is 1,5-2 before this  profession level. Crafted items don't follow the supply-demand prices.

nobody said it would be easy to have a profit of professions.but as 6footgeeks already mentioned, after maybe "Skilled", there is already profit. With skilled i most of the time get 2 items.

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Posted (edited)

nobody said it would be easy to have a profit of professions.but as 6footgeeks already mentioned, after maybe "Skilled", there is already profit. With skilled i most of the time get 2 items.

You store many items (you use many inventory or storage slots), craft it, than you get 500-1500 silver/energy. Nice, but killing 2 low level monsters is faster and give you same or better income.  :D
+gathering is better now. You get "raw" materials and shards. Shard is 1,8-6 million silvers, platinum-gold-silver is 4-10k silvers, trade pack (in 100%) is 9k, rough crystals are 1,5-9k silvers...

Or AFK fishing. you do nothing and you get 100k-1 million silvers. Ok.

 

Which profession levels are the "key" levels where you switch to better drops? All "Rank" 5 and 10? (skilled 5, skilled 10, Professional 5, Professional 10... Guru 5-10-15-20?)

Edited by Mikroman

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Posted

supply and demand , the demand for the materials is higher (because they have other uses)

if more people sold the cooking stations they would go up in price because they'd be bought up quickly

I wish you were right, but you are mistaken. If supply and demand drove prices, things like meat would be much higher, people would willingly pay it. Also, no matter what the demand for cooking stations is, no one will make them while the price range is fixed the way it is because there's no profit in it.

The reason there is a demand for those materials is because other things made with them are advantageous to craft. 

nobody said it would be easy to have a profit of professions.but as 6footgeeks already mentioned, after maybe "Skilled", there is already profit. With skilled i most of the time get 2 items.

You're right, no one (including me in the original post) said anything about the ease of making profits. As I pointed out, the raw materials are profitable. The question is why they seemed to have built in a disincentive to using them to craft. 

Maybe you've never done any crafting beyond processing, so I'll let you know that you can't make some things (like cooking stations and horse shoes) and those things the workers produce in your shops never proc extras. 

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Posted

Sure... You get more product, just the price is lower than material cost of 1 items. You invest 9k silver, you get products, you sell it in 12k price and you get 7,8k silver when you sell it.. :D You get 2-4 products after professional 10 maybe, but your average  amount of output is 1,5-2 before this  profession level. Crafted items don't follow the supply-demand prices.

Again, im just adressing Processing here. not end products of crafting like elixers and fishing rods and the like.
Regarding Processing, the beauty of the system is that you cant just roll a new toon at begginner level gather and processing and expect to be rolling in profits. You have to get them to skilled to start seeing results.
plus its not really invest 9k silver and get 12k or 7.5 k after tax.
Its more like this.


5 iron ore selling at 300 silver or 195 silver AFTER TAX.
I process them and i get 3 Iron shards which sell at around 700 silver or 455 AFTER tax.

So if i look at my profit

5 iron ore selling at 195 silver AFTER TAX = 975 silver.
3 iron shards selling at 455 silver AFTER tax = 1365 silver.
Profit i got from processing = 390 silver AFTER tax.
So i do make a profit from processing my items before selling them. the game is getting more output product from input materials. =)

At skilled you start getting an average of 2 items per process/gather. at professional the average is 3-4. Artisan is probably even higher but im just proff 6 right now.

You store many items (you use many inventory or storage slots), craft it, than you get 500-1500 silver/energy. Nice, but killing 2 low level monsters is faster and give you same or better income.  :D

That is a completely different argument. Grinding will of course allways be more profitable than life skills in a shorter amount of time. and it should be as well. However i will say that the recent buff to grinding silver was too much especially when life skills did not get any buffs. we need imperial crafting and imperial trading to make up for the gap now.

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Posted

Again, im just adressing Processing here. not end products of crafting like elixers and fishing rods and the like.Regarding Processing, the beauty of the system is that you cant just roll a new toon at begginner level gather and processing and expect to be rolling in profits. You have to get them to skilled to start seeing results.
plus its not really invest 9k silver and get 12k or 7.5 k after tax.
Its more like this.


5 iron ore selling at 300 silver or 195 silver AFTER TAX.
I process them and i get 3 Iron shards which sell at around 700 silver or 455 AFTER tax.

So if i look at my profit

5 iron ore selling at 195 silver AFTER TAX = 975 silver.
3 iron shards selling at 455 silver AFTER tax = 1365 silver.
Profit i got from processing = 390 silver AFTER tax.
So i do make a profit from processing my items before selling them. the game is getting more output product from input materials. =)

At skilled you start getting an average of 2 items per process/gather. at professional the average is 3-4. Artisan is probably even higher but im just proff 6 right now.

 

iron, copper, zinc, lead ores are 140-190 silvers in my servers. You can sell in 80-95 silver price to any vendors. I always sell raw cheap ores to vendors. I don't feed this marketplace system.Stones, crystals and silver/gold/platinum  (+trade packs and enchant shards) generate better income..

Basic processing is not worth it.  you can get better income/energy using other recipes.

But I am not smart. I try to spend my energy in effective mode, than I give up and invest it to node leveling or craft some not effective items in 100 pack. :D

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Posted

Besides the controlled market thing, there's another reason most people are unaware of - specially if they have not played RuneScape in the past.

Most of these items leave an EXP benefit when produced, so they lose part of their true value.

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Posted



At skilled you start getting an average of 2 items per process/gather. at professional the average is 3-4. Artisan is probably even higher but im just proff 6 right now.

 

That is not accurate.  It is more like 2 for skilled, 2.2 for professional, 2.4 for Artisan.  I am pretty sure they recently stealth nerfed production rates. 

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Posted

Controlled economy must be, well, controlled. Meaning someone from Daum must actively monitor the market and adjust the prices accordingly. I think it's obvious that's not an undertaking that Daum can actually do. So the prices in the marketplace often don't make sense. It has nothing to do with supply and demand.

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Posted (edited)

Seems to me that the simple solution would be to let the pricing of crafted items float with the prices of the components. So if the widget you are crafting needs a gizmo that sells for between 20 and 40 silver and a thingamajig that sells for 100-200 silver, then the Widget should sell for between 120 and 240. And as the components prices rise, the crafted item should also rise.

Edited by Grizabella
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Posted

Getting bidding will help a lot with this, giving people more incentive to post items they would otherwise trash or vend.

As for the reasoning... Crafting, unfortunately, is really largely for yourself and your own advancement rather than being something you'd do as a main game approach under the current system.

It's really not all that surprising that materials that are useful in 50 recipes aren't as valuable as a finished product that really isn't that hard to make in the first place.

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Posted

finished product that really isn't that hard to make in the first place.

Nothing in this game is truly "hard" to make. The problem is most people don't have enough CP required to make everything.

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Posted

people the devs have openly stated that the possible min/max is determined by a built in formula that changes the prices actively. there are also hard caps on item prices (like 9m for a +0 liverto.

 

and as stated already as far as processing goes yes sometimes the profit marget for 1 product per craft isent too high, but when you craft more than one (which is very likely) you get alot more money out of your materials. 

i can take 2k acacia logs and try to sell them , but if i take the time/energy to process them into plywood i can make double or triple the money.

and as far as talking about gathering vs processing ,  you can easily have one character be a processor and the other be a gatherer. though a majority of your materials will or atleast should come from workers at nodes.

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Posted

I can't make sense of any of this shit, seems like the tax ruins all profit on everything I process to potentially sell. I was starting the process of making Grade 3 Reform stones, I thought it would nice to sell them since they rare in market but all the effort, energy and time needed, it's not worth doing, so just gonna make them for myself for when 10+shard = guaranteed Ultimate.

 

Getting bidding will help a lot with this, giving people more incentive to post items they would otherwise trash or vend.

As for the reasoning... Crafting, unfortunately, is really largely for yourself and your own advancement rather than being something you'd do as a main game approach under the current system.

It's really not all that surprising that materials that are useful in 50 recipes aren't as valuable as a finished product that really isn't that hard to make in the first place.

I hope the bid system helps with that, someone desperate for the item bids a ridiculous amount, but do you get the full profit of that?

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Posted (edited)

I think we've actually been really lucky here.  In almost EVERY MMO on the market out there, the Materials themselves are always more profitable than 95% of the crafted gear with the remaining 5% usually being Cooking b/c for some reason most MMO's make cooking a huge Chore while still doing the one important step of preventing Mobs from dropping top tier Dishes.  But here in BDO I'd say a good majority of Crafted things are going on the Market for more than their raw Materials go fore despite many of those raw materials coming from Worker-Nodes.  And there's probably going to be long running bout of controversy on this, but I'd argue the BIGGEST reason for it is because marketeers can't simply Speculate & Flip these basic materials without actually having to do the longterm "work" of physically WAREHOUSING the items they're selling.

This has always been my biggest complaint about MMO's infact and why I was so hyped to pick focus on Lifeskills in BDO.  I do think they went a bit too far with some of these Price Floors & Caps and are aggressively controlling their economy to the point of Socialism, but I also have to point out that bullshit Market-Manipulation and Flash-Trading simply can't exist in an environment where you REQUIRE product Flippers to Physically-WareHouse their stock as if it were durable goods.  ... or Barring that, just slap a huge whopping 30% Swedish-style TAX on top of their sweatshop labor Import exploiting windfall profits.

 

I know this is a bit of hyperbole and maybe a bit heavy on the social commentary, but if you really look hard at the numbers and "follow the money", you can easily see a ton of parallels in how it forces a fair Competition platform between all market users and therefore greatly enhances Capitalism instead of leaving it to mutate into an ugly Kleptocracy that shuts honest small business players out of the influence loop

Edited by iller

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Posted

System is there to prevent people relisting items and controlling the market. You can still do it to some extent if you're lucky, but not like in other games. 

Which is a damn good thing!

Relisting items is the laziest, easiest way to make money and it unbalances the economy. It also makes stupid people feel smart.

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