• Announcements

    • IMPORTANT - REACH US IN THE NEW FORUM   05/04/2017

      Ladies and gentlemen ATTENTION please:
      It's time to move into a new house!
        As previously announced, from now on IT WON'T BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE THREADS OR REPLY in the old forums. From now on the old forums will be readable only. If you need to move/copy/migrate any post/material from here, feel free to contact the staff in the new home. We’ll be waiting for you in the NEW Forums!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php

      *New features and amazing tools are waiting for you, even more is yet to come in the future.. just like world exploration in BDO leads to new possibilities.
      So don't be afraid about changes, click the link above and follow us!
      Enjoy and see you on the other side!  
    • WICHTIG: Das Forum ist umgezogen!   05/04/2017

      Damen und Herren, wir bitten um Eure Aufmerksamkeit, es ist an der Zeit umzuziehen!
        Wie wir bereits angekündigt hatten, ist es ab sofort nicht mehr möglich, neue Diskussionen in diesem Forum zu starten. Um Euch Zeit zu geben, laufende Diskussionen abzuschließen, könnt Ihr noch für zwei Wochen in offenen Diskussionen antworten. Danach geht dieses Forum hier in den Ruhestand und das NEUE FORUM übernimmt vollständig.
      Das Forum hier bleibt allerdings erhalten und lesbar.   Neue und verbesserte Funktionen warten auf Euch im neuen Forum und wir arbeiten bereits an weiteren Erweiterungen.
      Wir sehen uns auf der anderen Seite!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php Update:
      Wie angekündigt könen ab sofort in diesem Forum auch keine neuen Beiträge mehr veröffentlicht werden.
    • IMPORTANT: Le nouveau forum   05/04/2017

      Aventurières, aventuriers, votre attention s'il vous plaît, il est grand temps de déménager!
      Comme nous vous l'avons déjà annoncé précédemment, il n'est désormais plus possible de créer de nouveau sujet ni de répondre aux anciens sur ce bon vieux forum.
      Venez visiter le nouveau forum!
      https://community.blackdesertonline.com
      De nouvelles fonctionnalités ainsi que de nouveaux outils vous attendent dès à présent et d'autres arriveront prochainement! N'ayez pas peur du changement et rejoignez-nous! Amusez-vous bien et a bientôt dans notre nouveau chez nous
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

Remove karma completely.

Remove karma completely   87 votes

  1. 1. Now that there's no penalty for dying in PvP, would you like to see karma completely removed?

    • Yes
      54
    • No
      29
    • Just remove the cap on guild wars (please be aware of huge advantage for unguilded players with this option)
      4

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

20 posts in this topic

Posted

So now you lose karma for killing someone, but they lose nothing. The new way to get people out of a grind spot is grief them into negative karma so you can kill them with penalty. This new change heavily promotes griefplay and unintended use of game mechanics to claim a grind spot. Why not remove karma completely?

Previously if someone didn't want to lose XP (or karma), they could declare war. Certain guilds would abuse this safety net by just dying and coming back again, and again, and again and again which would result in a hindrance of your progress anyway, some guilds needed to be killed over and over for over an hour before they left the spot. Well now, this is the state of PvP outside of guild wars, EXCEPT you lose -----ing karma for it, and there's a maximum of 6 guild wars so you can't get around it. Now, any random 12 year old pleb can just grief you by dying and doesn't even need to spend a tear.

Why not just remove the karma system completely? I would say just make guild wars unlimited, but then there's a massive advantage for being unguilded.

Clearly DAUM want to render PvP outside of nodewars / castle sieges completely meaningless, so why punish people for having fun?

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Oh good call, remove karma and please daum, send everyone +20 boss armor and kzarka too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

This has nothing to do with making it easier to progress or obtain gear. I assume DAUM removed the XP loss because PvP should be fun and available to everyone, and people shouldn't be punished for engaging in it and losing. Which isn't really my idea of a hardcore PvP game but assuming this is the direction they want to go, fair enough. But in that case, why punish people for engaging in PvP? Surely this change was created to promote PvP activity?

If this is not the reason for the change, then I'm absolutely baffled.

Can we please gain an official response on DAUM's motive for this chance, @CM_Tytyes @CM_Jouska @CM_Praballo ?

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

What made you think this is a hardcore pvp game?  I have never played a hardcore pvp game so what elements make up a hardcore pvp game?  To me it seems like there is a shitton of pve in this game just to get to the pvp part of it.  I think hardcore pvp would be more a fps type game where skill more then level and gear makes the difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

So if I kill a person, he loses nothing but the time to walk to the node, I lose karma.
I can kill him 6? times. Then he can continue farming like nothing is wrong. 

If he loses nothing but time.

I should not lose ANY karma. 

Lets take a VERY carebear mmo called world of warcraft. 
I can kill an enemy player as much as I want, he loses nothing for but time for the hassle however but I can kill him as much as I want to keep him out of my area if he keeps returning.

Now lets take BDO, the supposed open world SANDBOX game with lots of OWPVP. 
I can kill an enemy player 6 times, he loses nothing but time for the hassle and after 6 times he will come back with me close to 0 karma and then not being able to do ANYTHING about him any more. 

WHAT THE ALMIGHTY -----. 

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I'd be ok with removing Karma. If people don't lose xp from being pk'd then Imma have to kill them basically indefinitely cuz they'll never leave. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

No u whiny ganker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

They need equalized arenas.

 

Inb4 hardcore players suck ass, have no skill, and are gear carried kek

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Dear Daum,

you have forced me to activate my forums account today only to tell you that you are ruining the game.  There is no point in pvping now as there are only downsides to killing someone.

 

I agree that maybe removing 1% exp from the dieing person is too harsh, but then remove the karma system.  at least this way there is a way to fight for the spot where the PK doesnt get only the negatives.  in fact if you remove the karma system this game would be much more entertaining and filled with PVP action.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

No. Now scuttle along and deactivate your account

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Makes no sense to keep karma loss with this change lol

 

Remove karma system and make this mmo how it should have been from the get go.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Go ahead, I'm down the for the mayhem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

What made you think this is a hardcore pvp game?  I have never played a hardcore pvp game so what elements make up a hardcore pvp game?  To me it seems like there is a shitton of pve in this game just to get to the pvp part of it.  I think hardcore pvp would be more a fps type game where skill more then level and gear makes the difference.

I'm posting this for you and any other new player to MMOs: An FPS, or any match-based game for that matter would not be considered a "hardcore PvP" game among MMO players. An FPS is simply an FPS, you play matches, win some lose some whatever.

Obviously an MMO is a persistent world, and one that is considered "hardcore PvP" is one which has cause and affect i.e. where wins and losses matter. Where you may choose not to engage or to wait for backup because you fear the implications of losing the fight. Where you may choose to avoid certain areas at certain times because of the affect players have on the world. I hope you understand the difference, please don't use this thread to compare an MMORPG to match-based games.

Anyway, with these recent changes DAUM have basically removed all negative implications of losing a battle in the open world, and there never were any positive ones for the winning side only more negative ones. The negative implications for the losing side used to outweigh those for the winning side but this is no longer the case, the losing side now loses nothing where the winning side are the only ones at risk of going negative karma. How do the winning side know whether or not they are being baited into it so they can rush you with 20 players when you're red? I highly doubt this is what DAUM envisioned when they made the change, but this is what will be happening.

At least if the karma system is removed, the winning players are no longer punished. That way, you will have a PvP environment with no cause and affect what-so-ever, basically a giant FFA PvP no risk world. Could be fun at the beginning but not sure how long it could stay interesting for. But the current state of the system is just disgusting, punishing only the winner. What the -----?

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

PvP in this game was a way to escalate a conflict into a violent one, yet subsequently resolve it. To make that as smooth as possible, the Karma system was introduced. The Karma system has always been a double-edged sword, with deterrents/cons for both the Attacker (PKer) and the Defender (Victim).

The deterrent for the Attacker was the loss of karma. Kill too much, and game will be borderline unplayable for you until you grind a set amount of points back. In addition, you can be freely attacked while grinding back karma, with no means to defend yourself without dropping even more karma, thus making a downward spiral of some sort. This was a harsh, but necessary punishment to prevent extensive griefing.

The deterrent for the Defender was loss of crystals and loss of XP. The loss of crystals was removed for our version, making the Karma system somewhat unbalanced in favour of the defender, but still working. The removal of XP loss, however, completely removes any and all deterrent for the Defender, and they can now simply return over and over again with no fear and kamikaze at the Attacker, until the Attacker is either pushed out due to sheer stubbornness or goes negative karma and subsequently griefed out of the location.

As it stands right now, the karma system does not prevent griefing, but instead enables it. With only the Attacking side suffering penalties, the system is biased and favours the stubborn Defender. Please either rework the karma system or completely remove it from the game. There has to be penalties for both, or penalties for none. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

With Karma removed at least PvP would start everywhere.

Kill mobs, kill people, kill mobs, kill people.

Grinding might actually become less dull.

 

Still the very necessity to perma grind (no level cap) is the hugest minus of BDO.

Together with RNG in accessory upgrading.

Although I disagree with your opinion on the... Let's call it 'infinite progression' style that BDO offers, more PvP is always a good thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

How about this for those who feel this change is for the carebears.

Once you reach level 55 and die to another player your characters (Whole Familyname) revert back to 0 energy 0 contribution points and level 1 with no gear.

Don't like that? I thought you enjoyed playing 15-20 hours a day, so what if you have to start from scratch, if you are complaining then it shows you are a carebear as well.

Is that enough Risk Vs Reward for you?

Edited by Sorath

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

SHAMELESS bump because pissed off at incompetent game managers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Hmm, I don't think Karma should be removed. I am looking at both sides, and PVP should be fun. However, one thing for sure is the stress levels players will receive when they DON'T want to get PKed or when they can't PVP the other person themselves because they under geared, unexperienced, or simply just ignorant at playing the game. So, the PKer should definitely receive a penalty, and you can say for sure there is a lot of assholes, trolls, douche bags, heavy grinders, dumbasses, and the list goes on who won't abide to any rules out there just wanting to go out there and kill. In summary, North America = We are out for blood :Q.

If you are looking for blood, the game already offers the player PK button, Red Battlefield, Soon Node wars, Soon Guild Sieges, and Guild wars too. Removing Karma is just a way to say ----- the rules and killing everyone in sight. Keeping Karma allows for players to be in check and having the guards/NPCs dislike you until you gain it back. Last thing, I find it hilarious when PKers get chased by guards in town under Karma.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

you must think ... pk = crime, pvp = player vs player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Hmm, I don't think Karma should be removed. I am looking at both sides, and PVP should be fun. However, one thing for sure is the stress levels players will receive when they DON'T want to get PKed or when they can't PVP the other person themselves because they under geared, unexperienced, or simply just ignorant at playing the game. So, the PKer should definitely receive a penalty, and you can say for sure there is a lot of assholes, trolls, douche bags, heavy grinders, dumbasses, and the list goes on who won't abide to any rules out there just wanting to go out there and kill. In summary, North America = We are out for blood :Q.

If you are looking for blood, the game already offers the player PK button, Red Battlefield, Soon Node wars, Soon Guild Sieges, and Guild wars too. Removing Karma is just a way to say ----- the rules and killing everyone in sight. Keeping Karma allows for players to be in check and having the guards/NPCs dislike you until you gain it back. Last thing, I find it hilarious when PKers get chased by guards in town under Karma.

the issue isn't the karma, the issue is the missing penaltys for dying in pvp with positive karma, right now people can just nuke your karma by throwing their body at you over and over again, until you can't kill them anymore, and they lost literally nothing except a few minutes, how is this fair anymore? yeah, it's not

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0