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Feedback - EXP Penalty Removal from PvP

5,205 posts in this topic

Posted

For a second I was about to say "good job, you are better than all the others" but then you ruined it by not having the balls to do it on your main..Scared of going red and losing XP / crystals to someone stronger than you?

You see my friend, you are one of the carebears :) even if you won't admit it, you are hiding.

Let's go with the logic of the "hardcore players" shall we? Daum please remove per character Karma and implement a shared Karma system so the game is properly hardcore since you advertised this game as a hardcore PvP game!

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Posted

For a second I was about to say "good job, you are better than all the others" but then you ruined it by not having the balls to do it on your main..Scared of going red and losing XP / crystals to someone stronger than you?

You see my friend, you are one of the carebears :) even if you won't admit it, you are hiding.

I may be many things... but I am not stupid :P .. if you want to go with your main... then good luck ... :D :D:D 

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Posted

So uh why not make a poll on the forums if you want an indication of what the playerbase wants? Because here you atleast need a registered account so cant really be cheated by a stawpoll bot and such. The one linked in the OP is scewed and impacted by both bots and people not owning the game.

In short OP is a whiny idiot.

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Posted

You worry about what you eat and I'll worry about what I eat ok?

"A game where you grind and PvP" - That's pretty much the two words I would use to describe Black Desert yes. What kind of game do you think you bought? The Sims? And you are calling us idiots?

I just didn't get the memo where it said "You are about to buy a game about just grinding and PvPing". I guess I need glasses just like you need better nutrition.

I may be many things... but I am not stupid :P .. if you want to go with your main... then good luck ... :D :D:D 

I beg to differ.

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Posted

lol no one of my guild has even seen that poll before:o. and btw most of them like the change 

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Posted

I may be many things... but I am not stupid :P .. if you want to go with your main... then good luck ... :D :D:D 

I always go with my main :) I'm and not scared of a little extra work in a game that is supposed to never end.
But I am glad you admitted that you indeed are a carebear :D that gave me a bit more respect for you.

Let's go with the logic of the "hardcore players" shall we? Daum please remove per character Karma and implement a shared Karma system so the game is properly hardcore since you advertised this game as a hardcore PvP game!

Or simply give the XP loss back and remove tears from the pearl store so people can't cash their way out of losing XP ;) as probably most of those opposed to the patch did before. cause.. they were carebears too from the start :D

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Posted

I just didn't get the memo where it said "You are about to buy a game about just grinding and PvPing". I guess I need glasses just like you need better nutrition.

I beg to differ.

and you have the right to do it so :) 

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Posted (edited)

Sorry I got lost in your Commercial Airline pun crap there and you lost me with your elitism on "exclusivity". I read what you said fine.

I honestly don't understand your reaction. Is it elitist to reward those who spend more on airline travel? Likewise, this is a game and I think most players would feel that their efforts should have some reward. So those who have invested the time and effort to get to higher levels should have some way to defend or farm key spots. I did not like the loss of XP as it set back lesser players pretty hard. I do not like the fact that now any group of players can steal a node with no consequences. The issue is not the lack of XP loss- I think it is the loss of worthwhile farming for better players, who want their time to be well spent. So how to reward the better players while also supporting the rest? 

Airline travel is not perfect, but it was the closest metaphor I could think of- one where more accomplished players (frequent flyers) get some preference, but all paying customers get to play (fly).

Edited by Grizabella

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Posted (edited)

I just didn't get the memo where it said "You are about to buy a game about just grinding and PvPing". I guess I need glasses just like you need better nutrition.

Didn't get any memo either. Just from reading what other people wrote about Korea version and checking streams I pretty quickly understood that grinding and pvp over grind spots is what you will be spending most of your time on.

Unless you're a 100% fisher, trainer, trader etc. but I'll leave those guys out of this, since the discussion doesn't apply to them.

Edited by Lushbits

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Posted

and you have the right to do it so :) 

I get what you are saying. I always said if a group of 5 comes and they are grinding at the more heavier part of the spot, it's OK for a solo player to move along to a smaller area as he will have enough mobs to himself. But even with that mindset, you can't just go to a solo farming area and ask the guy that was already there for hours to leave just because you have better gear or you are more skilled. That's what my problem was. I have limited time on my hands to play this game and I'm trying my best to level up or "catch up" as some people say. Am I interested in PvP? Not at all, but I still would like to level up and still would like to get gear. Just because I don't like PvP'ing doesn't mean I just have to go fish or do horse training etc. Besides even horse trainers provide a service here, don't they? Even fishers when they sell the relics.. So we all have to co-exist just like in real world and people need to respect each other at the grinding spots rather than just PK'ing, since "they can". Communication is the answer here. If you are a solo player don't be selfish and give the bigger group the bigger area and go to a smaller section. If you are a big group ask the solo player nicely to move to a smaller area. If you are super hardcore and geared amazingly don't go 1v5 kill everyone, that helps no one but your ego. 

Didn't get any memo either. Just from reading what other people wrote about Korea version and checking streams I pretty quickly understood that grinding and pvp over grind spots is what you will be spending most of your time on.

Unless you're a 100% fisher, trainer, trader etc. but I'll leave those guys out of this, since the discussion doesn't apply to them.

Yet Korea version also had the same change we did more than a year ago: http://black-desert.com/forums/index.php/Thread/3196-BDO-Open-PvP-ruined/

So I'm guessing you didn't see that either?

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Posted (edited)

I get what you are saying. I always said if a group of 5 comes and they are grinding at the more heavier part of the spot, it's OK for a solo player to move along to a smaller area as he will have enough mobs to himself. But even with that mindset, you can't just go to a solo farming area and ask the guy that was already there for hours to leave just because you have better gear or you are more skilled. That's what my problem was. I have limited time on my hands to play this game and I'm trying my best to level up or "catch up" as some people say. Am I interested in PvP? Not at all, but I still would like to level up and still would like to get gear. Just because I don't like PvP'ing doesn't mean I just have to go fish or do horse training etc. Besides even horse trainers provide a service here, don't they? Even fishers when they sell the relics.. So we all have to co-exist just like in real world and people need to respect each other at the grinding spots rather than just PK'ing, since "they can". Communication is the answer here. If you are a solo player don't be selfish and give the bigger group the bigger area and go to a smaller section. If you are a big group ask the solo player nicely to move to a smaller area. If you are super hardcore and geared amazingly don't go 1v5 kill everyone, that helps no one but your ego. 

Stoping my trolling for a bit...

 

I understand the point... my issue was never with that and you are absolutely right... my issue is now with some of those solo players now come in pairs and mess up the rotation we are already sharing with other parties... before they would leave cause the it wasn't worth losing exp... now they just stay around and feed of the small bits of exp they get from the trolling... and they wont lose anything so I should they care?

Edited by Black_pegasus

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Posted

Would disagree with your general consensus (am not a pvp or pk player myself just to clarify). ...I don't really think, for the most part, this is your pvp group complaining. I actually believe most of what I've seen thus far raging is from pve players or guilds that "claimed" areas of open world for their own farming, which resulted in pking to maintain that control. That said, I support them in it, as I do pvp and pk players. ...why? ...because it was an aspect of the game. Yes, the game is open world, and yes that means the mobs and maps are open to public, but the entire dynamic is to drive conflict thereby driving pvp. If someone is "bold" or geared enough to claim an area as their farm area, go for it...now you try to unseat or prove them wrong.

This resulted from griefers, not pk or pvp players, causing problems, but this will continue as your griefers are still there, the rolls are simply reversed now. I do not think this change is a long term bad change. Short term it is going to cause some pains, but think it will be fine. I don't think it should have been implemented. If anything, PA and Daum were duped with a few loud people and bad arguments that distracted from the core game. That said, I think at this point, they need to stop touching it. Just leave it as is, let this play out for the next week or so, and see how the landscape has changed. Ultimately, continued changes back and forth in attempt to balance this will not play well, and in appearance will cause Daum and PA to seem disorganized. Leave it alone and let the community sort this out for themselves.

I can understand that thought process, but more than anything I feel it's important that a company provide a chance for everyone to advance. While that chance is available for everyone, the other complaint I also see is people angry about not being able to grind because they're primarily solo and some group is hogging a spot or some group is more powerful than their group and they keep being killed. In my opinion no player should be able to hinder another player's ability to advance through a game. Most would call it a feature but it's not like the game itself is what's preventing that person from leveling up. Even at this point the logical solution in today's community "git gud scrub" blah blah... but still it's worth considering a company that makes an MMO has to try and please a LARGE group of players. The PvE or the PvP groups like to assume that their style of play is all that matters and that couldn't be more wrong. Such a thought process by a game dev would inevitably lead to a game's failure This patch is just their attempt to try and find a feasible solution. Rather than staying stagnant and reverting back to the old way which honestly wasn't fair to a certain group of players a change did (and still does) need to be made. Is this change the answer? I don't feel it is, because -like I stated before- I agree that being able to abuse the Karma system is pretty screwed up. Again -like I stated before- the best course of action by everyone would be to find a secondary solution instead of just saying "fk this bs man blah blah" and going back to the old way. You might be happy with that, but what about the people who aren't? Why would you consider your play style or opinion more valid than someone else? This could also be said for the other group, but the other group isn't the one complaining at the moment, and currently don't have the motivation or reason to ponder a new solution. 

-Disclaimer: When I say "you" I mean the angry players. Not you specifically. I'd like to avoid an angry conversation and keep this civil.

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Posted (edited)

Stoping my trolling for a bit...

 

I understand the point... my issue was never with that and you are absolutely right... my issue is now with some of those solo players now come in pairs and mess up the rotation we are already sharing with other parties... before they would leave cause the it wasn't worth losing exp... now they just stay around and feed of the small bits of exp they get from the trolling... and they wont lose anything so I should they care?

They are doing exactly what troll PK'ers did before the patch. This is not OK either. They were trolling, you got mad and now you go troll them.. It's really childish how they are behaving. I don't think this OK in any way either. There has to be a balance and a middle ground for everyone to grind and level up, so everyone can enjoy their time with the game. Which means more customer satisfaction for Daum (which will equal more money on the long run) and more players for the game so it can grow and not die. Maybe a solution to stop kill stealing will stop all these trolls as well. I never understood why a fully geared player would go PK'ing random people and I don't understand why a person with low level would want to troll other people instead of actually leveling up and getting some loot. It seems really childish.

I can understand that thought process, but more than anything I feel it's important that a company provide a chance for everyone to advance. While that chance is available for everyone, the other complaint I also see is people angry about not being able to grind because they're primarily solo and some group is hogging a spot or some group is more powerful than their group and they keep being killed. In my opinion no player should be able to hinder another player's ability to advance through a game. Most would call it a feature but it's not like the game itself is what's preventing that person from leveling up. Even at this point the logical solution in today's community "git gud scrub" blah blah... but still it's worth considering a company that makes an MMO has to try and please a LARGE group of players. The PvE or the PvP groups like to assume that their style of play is all that matters and that couldn't be more wrong. Such a thought process by a game dev would inevitably lead to a game's failure This patch is just their attempt to try and find a feasible solution. Rather than staying stagnant and reverting back to the old way which honestly wasn't fair to a certain group of players a change did (and still does) need to be made. Is this change the answer? I don't feel it is, because -like I stated before- I agree that being able to abuse the Karma system is pretty screwed up. Again -like I stated before- the best course of action by everyone would be to find a secondary solution instead of just saying "fk this bs man blah blah" and going back to the old way. You might be happy with that, but what about the people who aren't? Why would you consider your play style or opinion more valid than someone else? This could also be said for the other group, but the other group isn't the one complaining at the moment, and currently don't have the motivation or reason to ponder a new solution. 

-Disclaimer: When I say "you" I mean the angry players. Not you specifically. I'd like to avoid an angry conversation and keep this civil.

Well said!

Edited by nemesis5858

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Posted

Guys enjoy your day... I have stuff to do... gonna be online later on after work to kill some AFK's ... don't take it personally.

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Posted

I get what you are saying. I always said if a group of 5 comes and they are grinding at the more heavier part of the spot, it's OK for a solo player to move along to a smaller area as he will have enough mobs to himself. But even with that mindset, you can't just go to a solo farming area and ask the guy that was already there for hours to leave just because you have better gear or you are more skilled. That's what my problem was. I have limited time on my hands to play this game and I'm trying my best to level up or "catch up" as some people say. Am I interested in PvP? Not at all, but I still would like to level up and still would like to get gear. Just because I don't like PvP'ing doesn't mean I just have to go fish or do horse training etc. Besides even horse trainers provide a service here, don't they? Even fishers when they sell the relics.. So we all have to co-exist just like in real world and people need to respect each other at the grinding spots rather than just PK'ing, since "they can". Communication is the answer here. If you are a solo player don't be selfish and give the bigger group the bigger area and go to a smaller section. If you are a big group ask the solo player nicely to move to a smaller area. If you are super hardcore and geared amazingly don't go 1v5 kill everyone, that helps no one but your ego. 

Yet Korea version also had the same change we did more than a year ago: http://black-desert.com/forums/index.php/Thread/3196-BDO-Open-PvP-ruined/

So I'm guessing you didn't see that either?

Sounds like Daum keeps on pissing off their user bases, regardless of where they are or what version the game they play. 

Keep championing the death of this game though, I'm sure you'll shrug and move on to your next target once this one is thoroughly Trion'd. 

The entire argument that this update improves "casual" players ability to advance has been nonsensical from the get go. When I started I was in a small guild, got kicked out of everywhere by big guilds. I just kept roaming, finding different spots, exploring, getting stronger. I avoided big spots, and leveled up anyway on the non-optimal grind rotations. 

I never had a problem with losing XP to pvp because I did not pick fights I could not win. Some players have this mentality that everywhere belongs to everyone. Well, you may get your way, and that may become the case, and this game will end up like every other game that has pandered to people like you, and it will fade into nonexistence, like every other "Open world pvp" game. 

I for one started this game with a great love for the way the pvp system worked prior to this update. I did not see anything wrong with it, even as a casual grinder, and a low geared player. It forced me to adapt, and learn, join bigger groups, find stronger grind groups. Difficulty enforces evolution and advancement. 

Might makes right. I don't expect real world social justice to dictate how a video game should function. I want to feel the adrenaline when I pvp, I could lose hours of effort If I mess up or get caught unawares. That's what drives my interest. That may not be what drives yours, but so far all I've seen from most of the people supporting this update is over generalizations of how people who are upset about it, just want to pvp low geared people and hog a grind spot and that everywhere belongs to everyone, and that feelings make right. 

But the saddest part of this all, is that this does not improve casual gamers ability to grind. From what I've seen, in order to progress effectively at all, if you die once or twice a game session, is to grind 12 hours a day, in the most optimal area to get a mere 20-25% XP. Not everyone has that in them, I certainly don't. Now that any griefer can interrupt a grind session for intense players or casual players both, it has not become easier for casual players to grind XP or advance. Most people trying to get to 55-56 are in a guild, because without a guild, it's difficult to organize a party every few days to get that XP you desperately need before the next patch or what have you. 

Most grind areas are not contested by random non-guilded players. They are contested by other guilds. There was already no XP loss because of war declarations. A lot of casuals join guilds in order to start advancing, well that's gone. Might as well stay guildless. This update has attacked the core structure of how advancement works in this game. If you can't hold on to an optimal grind rotation, you turn twelve hours for a possible 20% into 10%. 

Griefing is not fun for anyone but the griefer. Kill stealing mobs and having no consequence for it, does not make a fun environment. Personally, I've not had this done to me since the update, but a lot of people have had it done to them, and some have quit over it. This update may not damage the overall game population, but it will certainly lower my enthusiasm for it. Not because I want to pvp people, but because I don't enjoy the thought of some guy being able to kill steal and my inability to do something about it if they decide to go on an attrition campaign. 

Sure you may say, just flag up carebear, I would, but I don't want to go negative karma, lose my enchants and have to spend that much more time trying to catch up, when I'm trying to do as Daum claims this update will help me do, advance. 

The system was not broken, it already had a solution. Join a guild. Be social, and explore. 

 

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Posted

I can understand that thought process, but more than anything I feel it's important that a company provide a chance for everyone to advance. While that chance is available for everyone, the other complaint I also see is people angry about not being able to grind because they're primarily solo and some group is hogging a spot or some group is more powerful than their group and they keep being killed. In my opinion no player should be able to hinder another player's ability to advance through a game. Most would call it a feature but it's not like the game itself is what's preventing that person from leveling up. Even at this point the logical solution in today's community "git gud scrub" blah blah... but still it's worth considering a company that makes an MMO has to try and please a LARGE group of players. The PvE or the PvP groups like to assume that their style of play is all that matters and that couldn't be more wrong. Such a thought process by a game dev would inevitably lead to a game's failure This patch is just their attempt to try and find a feasible solution. Rather than staying stagnant and reverting back to the old way which honestly wasn't fair to a certain group of players a change did (and still does) need to be made. Is this change the answer? I don't feel it is, because -like I stated before- I agree that being able to abuse the Karma system is pretty screwed up. Again -like I stated before- the best course of action by everyone would be to find a secondary solution instead of just saying "fk this bs man blah blah" and going back to the old way. You might be happy with that, but what about the people who aren't? Why would you consider your play style or opinion more valid than someone else? This could also be said for the other group, but the other group isn't the one complaining at the moment, and currently don't have the motivation or reason to ponder a new solution. 

-Disclaimer: When I say "you" I mean the angry players. Not you specifically. I'd like to avoid an angry conversation and keep this civil.

I see your point, but I guess what comes to mind almost immediately is, "how is your leveling hindered?". There are numerous ways in which to progress, including 10+ channels to switch to and from for additional freedoms in leveling. I would also point out that we would need to clearly define progression as well. To me, progression is an improvement not just in level, abilities, skills, professions, and the like, but is also a progression in how your ability to play evolves. ...the non-measurable or non-quantifiable variable...or the subjective variable. 

If I take my personal situation, just as an example - not an edict of the way it should be, I have always been heavily into PVE content, from the simply things, such as gathering, to the incredibly fun raiding. I came to bdo realizing it was going to be fairly different for me, and may present a challenge. Knowing that I tend to shy away from pvp (simply because I don't care for it), I wanted to challenge myself to improve my abilities as a player, not specific stats. I also wanted to expand my experience into new interfaces and mechanics that were outside of my norm. These things are improvements to myself, not just a character or stat in a game. I can easily take the point that not all people think that way, but would again ask how is leveling or progression hindered. ...it may have to be done differently than originally planned, but that is ultimately what creating and adjusting strategies in an MMO, where multi-player is a huge variable, is about.

As has been seen over the past couple of days, this did not solve issues of griefing and what not. those players that want to do it, will always find a way to go about doing so. Really my biggest point to the community in all of this is that we should not be looking to programmers and community management to fix these things for us. The community and its players should be looking to sharpen their abilities to overcome these types of challenges themselves.

I do 100% agree with you. This was a good faith effort (which I applaud) to address what has been perceived as a problem. Was it the best, personal opinion, no. Was it the worse? ...no, by no stretch was/is it. As I've stated in other replies, while I was happier with the way it was, I'm not for it being reverted right now. It would take some convincing for me to agree or support that. Why? ...the same reasons I didn't care for it. ...I don't see this as something that required Daum or PA intervention. Now that intervention has taken place, I'm not for further intervention or change.

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Posted (edited)

I'd like this one:

1. Set xp lose in PvP to 0% like it is atm

2. Set a cooldown on "Respawn at Node/Closest Town" (30 Min)

3. Add "Respawn at Capital Town" as an option. (This will revive you at the capital town of the area you died in)

Edited by Jylin
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Posted

They are not going to use this poll at all. Nothing will change with this. I've told you the reason why: most likely out of the 5k votes there's 4.5k fake ones. Jouska used a website which you can manipulate so easily that it's can't be trusted.

But hey I don't need to repeat myself, if you chose to ignore the whole point of my reply there's nothing further to talk about. This poll won't do anything, won't change anything. Only real "vote" option is one that's taken in-game.

jouska didnt made anything. it was a player that made this poll. Its not even a good poll because of the third option where 230 ppl didnt rly voted at all!!!!

And the poll is most likely manipulated.....i mean ip reset or some programs out there can do it for you. As long as there isnt any officiell poll they wont use it for their decisions.

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Posted

I'd like this one:

1. Set xp lose in PvP to 0% like it is atm

2. Set a cooldown on "Respawn at Node/Closest Town" (30 Min)

3. Add "Respawn at Capital Town" as an option. (This will revive you at the capital town of the area you died in)

The cooldown of node/town could be 10 minutes, that would still give the same effect, but other than that - perfect solution!

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Posted

jouska didnt made anything. it was a player that made this poll. Its not even a good poll because of the third option where 230 ppl didnt rly voted at all!!!!

And the poll is most likely manipulated.....i mean ip reset or some programs out there can do it for you. As long as there isnt any officiell poll they wont use it for their decisions.

Yeah sorry about that.. realized shortly after >.>

Funny people consider it a fair poll thou

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Posted

Let's do this! Respawn counter is a great idea. Another guy suggested respawning costs energy. Another good idea!

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Posted

I see your point, but I guess what comes to mind almost immediately is, "how is your leveling hindered?". There are numerous ways in which to progress, including 10+ channels to switch to and from for additional freedoms in leveling. I would also point out that we would need to clearly define progression as well. To me, progression is an improvement not just in level, abilities, skills, professions, and the like, but is also a progression in how your ability to play evolves. ...the non-measurable or non-quantifiable variable...or the subjective variable. 

If I take my personal situation, just as an example - not an edict of the way it should be, I have always been heavily into PVE content, from the simply things, such as gathering, to the incredibly fun raiding. I came to bdo realizing it was going to be fairly different for me, and may present a challenge. Knowing that I tend to shy away from pvp (simply because I don't care for it), I wanted to challenge myself to improve my abilities as a player, not specific stats. I also wanted to expand my experience into new interfaces and mechanics that were outside of my norm. These things are improvements to myself, not just a character or stat in a game. I can easily take the point that not all people think that way, but would again ask how is leveling or progression hindered. ...it may have to be done differently than originally planned, but that is ultimately what creating and adjusting strategies in an MMO, where multi-player is a huge variable, is about.

As has been seen over the past couple of days, this did not solve issues of griefing and what not. those players that want to do it, will always find a way to go about doing so. Really my biggest point to the community in all of this is that we should not be looking to programmers and community management to fix these things for us. The community and its players should be looking to sharpen their abilities to overcome these types of challenges themselves.

I do 100% agree with you. This was a good faith effort (which I applaud) to address what has been perceived as a problem. Was it the best, personal opinion, no. Was it the worse? ...no, by no stretch was/is it. As I've stated in other replies, while I was happier with the way it was, I'm not for it being reverted right now. It would take some convincing for me to agree or support that. Why? ...the same reasons I didn't care for it. ...I don't see this as something that required Daum or PA intervention. Now that intervention has taken place, I'm not for further intervention or change.

I'm referring specifically to players frustrated with being killed (sometimes repeatedly) and losing XP. Apparently at higher levels that much xp loss is hours and hours of grinding? I'm not at such a level yet because I'm like you and indulge in everything the game has to offer; but I also know I don't have the time nor patience to regrind 10+ hours for a single percentage of xp if i'm killed by another player. Due to that amount of time It would take to get that xp back, such a loss really is a hindrance. I'd take being griefed and harassed over regrinding for that amount of time any day. I wish they would implement that Karma 2.0 maybe that would help.

The cooldown of node/town could be 10 minutes, that would still give the same effect, but other than that - perfect solution!

I think the same problem will still exist wouldn't it? It would just take longer for the griefer to get back to the grind spot, no?

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Posted

 

 

On topic, the key issues here are;

 

- The vast majority of nearly any online game don't use the forums, they play the game and maybe read patch notes but that's it.
- Last I knew, BDO in EU was boasting a 100-125k daily active user amount. 2900 players is not even close to an acceptable number to base decisions off
- Furthering on from point one, in any situation like this the side that benefits from a decision is usually the less vocal because... Well they're out there benefiting, so naturally in a poll that requires some effort to be made to access the decision that has the most disagreement will be the one most vocalised.

What I found interesting is the Strawpoll had around 5k votes whereas the one that guy is posting from the BDO forums has less than 1500. I'm not accusing either side of botting, but this just goes to show how easy it is for someone to think "eh, can't be arsed logging in to vote".

You obviously have no idea how stat work.

The poll could be representative if it wasnt that easy to bot vote strawpoll.

 

After, i'am personaly all for keeping the no xp loose when pked.

Even tho, they could restrict that only to ppl with 150k karma +. ( like to "give that advantage" only to "pacific" players )

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