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Feedback - EXP Penalty Removal from PvP

5,205 posts in this topic

Posted

So a bunch of players maybe created 2 or 3 forum accounts to vote a garbage online poll, and you think DAUM will care?

No.

YES, to that no!

With a sample size of nearly 5k, I believe it's a good reflection of what the playerbase wants.

Rvr1Awy.png

http://www.strawpoll.me/10368176/r

 

This change needs to be reverted ASAP. You can still save your game.

 

MAKE BDO GREAT AGAIN

Great for who? for Pkers, and gankers? for the past couple of days these PKrs have really shown their really garbage personality by seriously starting to PK everyone in all channels. Garbage will be garbage. Too bad for them no harm done to those PKed. The butthurt is really getting serious.

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Posted (edited)

Personally I am rather happy about this change. It takes nothing away from the people who are already ahead of myself other than the option of being a jerk to someone who they perceive as weaker. Come node wars and castle sieges none of the "casuals" will matter to anyone looking for some "serious pvp" anyway and there will be a shift towards that. All this tear spilling and doom and gloom calling in hyperbole stumbling over one another is just the same kind of reaction you get every time a magnifying glass gets taken away from an ant bully. Mind you, plenty of ants bite back. 

Aside from that, failing to see that many of those that are crying foul about this change are part of the crowd with much disposable time but little disposable income is just another piece of over inflated sense of entitlement but that is a rant for another time. 

The EXP change is a good thing for a healthy thriving community which requires all kinds of players. This pseudo feud between hard core players and casuals is just silly. We all enjoy the game in one form or another. Competition is healthy too but just keep in mind Arche Age and Wildstar.. I don't think many want a repeat of that.Where a game tried to either cater to a "hard core" crowd and alienated majority of players interested in the game. Or where there was so much room to grief one another that it just sucked out the fun for everyone but the trolliest of trolls. There is plenty of room to be competitive in this game without griefing others for their EXP.

Forgot to mention: Strawpoll? Really? Cause that totally can not be rigged one way or another in the easiest of ways.. /sarcasm and exaggerated eyeroll.

Edited by Caelin
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Posted

Since this patch I have gone red twice from defending my spot at Sausans. People do not seem to care if you kill them as there are now no consequences. What does happen is they repeatedly come back and either killsteal my mobs and or they flag on me. What ends up happening is I end up having to grind out the karma finrom going red in the very far back of Sausan because anyone can kill me on sight. This has been very unpleasant and I strongly disagree with this change. All I want is for you to restore balance to the game by reverting the changes. You could also try  drastically lowering the karma penalties but would prefer restoring it to the way it was due to new problems that may arise. Also, I want to add that I enjoyed the risk and adrenaline while PvPing due to the risk of exp loss and now, to me, PvP seems like a joke. The only person that loses now is the winner of the fight. Before, when both sides had something to lose it created an atmosphere of Respect. Now people come in to my grinding spots saying things like "don't you like the changes to pvp?" While they kill steal my mobs because they know there are no consequences for their actions. There will only be more griefing now I assure you of that. Thank you for considering my feedback. -A very loyal customer.

@CM_Jouska

Just party up with them and play together.

The next gen MMO crowd does love to alienate itself. I miss the times where you could just bump into others and work together towards a goal. Now it's just "Me me me".

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Posted

Listen. If people are quitting over this.. their inability to grief, bully, cause suffering to another human being.. then GREAT we should be rid of these. Be nicer if they went to get help but... well we can't control that.

 

This is not what this patch has done though, which makes me question your ability to comprehend people's action in game. This patch empowered griefers to just screw with people until they quit playing. Have you not seen this? Do you think these solo guildless rangers and wizards are just looking for a spot to farm? Are you that stupid?

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Posted (edited)

The solution is simple, remove karma from the game entirely, JUST THINK  OF THE PVP THAT WOULD HAPPEN THEN!

Just party up with them and play together.

The next gen MMO crowd does love to alienate itself. I miss the times where you could just bump into others and work together towards a goal. Now it's just "Me me me".

What do you do if you are a full party and this dude just interrupts you until you leave? One guy for hours on end because he has no consequences for being an asshole?

This is what is happening. If you haven't encountered it then you aren't -----ing playing or you are too stupid to realize what is going on.

For people too stupid to comprehend the problem here is someone explaining just why this patch is the dumbest thing to hit the game.

 

"Ironicly to have more pvp we have reduced karma penalty wich is now just a clown mechenic as you dont lose anything but 10 seconds to res at the node 

Today was funny when i ran into a group of grinders and stole their mobs for 20 minutes untill i had my daily done, they all left the channel when they became low on karma.

So basicly i can waiste peoples time and karma without any punishment unlesss they declare war to me wich cost them 150k silver :P but then i can just trol them and say made you wardec me for nothing boys /switch channel rinse and repeat."

Edited by Wrekks

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Posted

I have been playing MMO's Chun since before you was an itch in your Daddies ballsack. I have experience.
WOmen spend ? Sure..but they are not PvP'ers, do not attempt to manipulate data.

Everquest 1999 - 2012
Neverwinter 2013
Archeage 2014
FFXIV 2014 - 2015
Black Desert 2016

Sad, yeah... 17 years of MMO's...but When it comes to who spends what and who causes the most trouble and doesn't spend or cheats to spend...I have a little knowledge about all of that.

I am 41 years old now, I work, have children and spend a few hours a day as a relax to wind down playing games I enjoy. 
WE...us older crowd, dont want you little shits around anymore.

WE dont like you.
YOU ruin our entertainment
YOU need to take a hint.

For the past 3 months you little sh*ts have gotten off making everyone elses life miserable. All you little co*ksuckers do is Run game to game cheat and hack your ways through it, ruining everyones experience, until your either banned or you ruin the game, then you all move onto the next.

Then when a game company comes down on you entitles little fu*ks...you cry Chargeback !!! or your going to go to Mmo forums and smear the game just because you didnt get your way..

WELL GO... GTFO...Your NOT WELCOME HERE !

image.gif

images.jpg

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Posted

Poll is such BS and not ACCURATE.

 

No reverting needed, keep it the way it is.

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Posted

The solution is simple, remove karma from the game entirely, JUST THINK  OF THE PVP THAT WOULD HAPPEN THEN!

 

What do you do if you are a full party and this dude just interrupts you until you leave? One guy for hours on end because he has no consequences for being an asshole?

This is what is happening. If you haven't encountered it then you aren't -----ing playing or you are too stupid to realize what is going on.

For people too stupid to comprehend the problem here is someone explaining just why this patch is the dumbest thing to hit the game.

 

If you're a full party why are you struggling to keep the mobs to yourself?

And less with the insults, it doesn't do well to get your point across.

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Posted

The people crying about this are the same ones that destroyed Archeage. Then they started blaming it on P2W instead of acknowledging the fact that PVE players couldn't play the game without being griefed. The jail system meant nothing. Forced PvP is simply not a viable option. Period. The sooner gaming companies realize that the sooner we'll all have an awesome game we can all call home. PvP should be optional. The easiest solution is PvP servers, as we've stated since 2014. Should have listened to us...


Now look at the mess you're in Daum.

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Posted

PvPers in big PvP guilds complaining because their names go red and people can simply come over and kill them off, forcing them to move to a less prime location for their grind, with no regard for people who actually enjoy this game DESPITE the PvP rather than because of it being chased off by -----y pvp guilds come night time after having held the spot for 3-4 hours prior, loosing out on all that exp and loosing exp by coming back and farming the LESS prime locations to because most of these PvP guilds like to kill people for no reason what so ever, just their own amusement.. so there 1 hour of grind gone because someone wanted to kill me while I was minding my own business.. now the tables are turned and you guys are salty.. don't pity you what so ever.

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Posted

If you're a full party why are you struggling to keep the mobs to yourself?

And less with the insults, it doesn't do well to get your point across.

Do you know what a geared ranger/wizard is? Do you even play this game?

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Posted

Do you know what a geared ranger/wizard is? Do you even play this game?

So make your party balanced, bring your own wizard/ranger/witch.. problem solved.

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Posted (edited)

You are an idiot.

 

I don't want to explain to you why you are an idiot.

 

edit-3 posts, it's a troll.

Edited by Wrekks

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Posted (edited)

You twist facts to your liking i see.

1. Korean version launched with no exp loss on death. It was NOT "added at a later stage".

I'm not "twisting" anything.

As I had understood it the complaints over the Korean PvP system appeared around an update in January 2015. This timeframe is when you see posts, articles, and write-ups appearing crying about how they killed PK'ing. Among the complaints was that there is 0 XP loss on PK death.

For example, the doom-and-gloom thread named "BDO Open PvP ruined" on black-desert from January 12, 2015.

In that thread the user states:

"-PvP death penalty is now meaningless (no Xp loss, mean the guy you killed can come back again and again and keep trolling you, while you lose all your good tendancy trying to make him leave)"
(emphasis mine)

Now... why would this player say the PvP death penalty is now meaningless if it had never had an XP penalty to it in the first place?

Additionally, the January 11, 2015 Korean BDO patch notes contain the following updates about PvP changes:

"5. If the character is dead because of PvP experience is not reduced"
...
"8. characters in Guild Wars death penalty (penalty) does not apply if you die."

http://bbs.black.game.daum.net/gaia/do/black/update/read?articleId=28&pageIndex=12&bbsId=BDN002

There was also the January 14, 2015 article on black-desert entitled "The naked truth about Black Desert Onlines current state of affairs [Open Beta]" which contained the following line:

"Fourth, reintroduce the loss of experience upon death since it works simultaneously as a deterrent and motivation in an open world PvP environment."
(emphasis mine)

Reintroduce? Don't you think that is a strange choice of word to employ if it never had an XP penalty in the first place?

In another thread didn't you claim to have been one of the people who contributed to that article? If so I'm rather surprised you would be unclear about this.

By saying Korea BDO launched with no XP loss you would be correct in that the official launch (July 14th, 2015) had no XP penalty on PK death, but the other launch was the 7 month long open beta beginning December 2014 that did have XP loss on PK death.

That launch is more relevant to this discussion as the same complaints arose back then over this change, in some cases raised by the same players who are now trying to change the NA/EU version.

2. The playerbase asked for exp loss on death, and it was added back in alpha EU/NA. Otherwise, we would have launched without it too. It was a decision taken by Daum Eu together with the playerbase to give a meaning to open world pvp.

And how many of those players were Korean BDO players still upset from approximately a year earlier when the XP penalty was removed in the Korean version?

For the past 3 months PK'ers had been accusing PvE players of "trying to change the game" because they wanted the PvP level either raised to 50, or the progression lock quest lowered to Lv44. It sounds like the only ones trying to change the game were those PK'ers, and that Daum made the mistake of listening to them rather than trusting the developers.

Clearly that gamble hasn't paid off with the developers putting this change in.

3. The removal of it has nothing to do with the korean version.

Please do not spread false info.

I had read the Valencia dates incorrectly, so I was wrong about it coinciding with our current content stage.

You can't make the argument that it has nothing to do with the Korean version though. Not when they made the same change long ago and the same arguments were made - in some cases by the same players who are now repeating those arguments. These players tried to change our version to what existed early on in the Korean open beta. The developers had changed it for a reason back then, and players here were unhappy with the previous system for a reason.

Edited by scau

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Posted

I'm not "twisting" anything.

As I had understood it the complaints over the Korean PvP system appeared around an update in January 2015. This timeframe is when you see posts, articles, and write-ups appearing crying about how they killed PK'ing. Among the complaints was that there is 0 XP loss on PK death.

For example, the doom-and-gloom thread named "BDO Open PvP ruined" on black-desert from January 12, 2015.

In that thread the user states:

"-PvP death penalty is now meaningless (no Xp loss, mean the guy you killed can come back again and again and keep trolling you, while you lose all your good tendancy trying to make him leave)"
(emphasis mine)

Now... why would this player say the PvP death penalty is now meaningless if it had never had an XP penalty to it in the first place?

Additionally, the January 11, 2015 Korean BDO patch notes contain the following updates about PvP changes:

"5. If the character is dead because of PvP experience is not reduced"
...
"8. characters in Guild Wars death penalty (penalty) does not apply if you die."

http://bbs.black.game.daum.net/gaia/do/black/update/read?articleId=28&pageIndex=12&bbsId=BDN002

There was also the January 14, 2015 article on black-desert entitled "The naked truth about Black Desert Onlines current state of affairs [Open Beta]" which contained the following line:

"Fourth, reintroduce the loss of experience upon death since it works simultaneously as a deterrent and motivation in an open world PvP environment."
(emphasis mine)

Reintroduce? Don't you think that is a strange choice of word to employ if it never had an XP penalty in the first place?

In another thread didn't you claim to have been one of the people who contributed to that article? If so I'm rather surprised you would be unclear about this.

By saying Korea BDO launched with no XP loss you would be correct in that the official launch (July 14th, 2015) had no XP penalty on PK death, but the other launch was the 7 month long open beta beginning December 2014 that did have XP death.

That launch is more relevant to this discussion as the same complaints arose back then over this change, in some cases raised by the same players who are now trying to change the NA/EU version.

And how many of those players were Korean BDO players still upset from approximately a year earlier when the XP penalty was removed in the Korean version?

For the past 3 months PK'ers had been accusing PvE players of "trying to change the game" because they wanted the PvP level either raised to 50, or the progression lock quest lowered to Lv44. It sounds like the only ones trying to change the game were those PK'ers, and that Daum made the mistake of listening to them rather than trusting the developers.

Clearly that gamble hasn't paid off with the developers putting this change in.

I had read the Valencia dates incorrectly, so I was wrong about it coinciding with our current content stage.

You can't make the argument that it has nothing to do with the Korean version though. Not when they made the same change long ago and the same arguments were made - in some cases by the same players who are now repeating those arguments. These players tried to change our version to what existed early on in the Korean open beta. They changed it for a reason, and players were unhappy with the previous system for a reason.

You always talk the biggest load of horse shit. 

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Posted

You lost me when you said "carebears". Seriously, before joined this game i have never heard this word, but seems the one and only word 90% of forum's people knows here.

This must be the first game with PvP and PvE you've ever played and tried to communicate with other players.

I've been hearing the term "carebear" since the late 90's but I've been a PvPer most of my gaming life. (these days I more identify as being inbetween because it's really hard to dedicate enough time to keep on the high end of PvP because I'm a working stiff)

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Posted

Personally, I like this patch. I like the EXP changes.  That means that if someone is AFK somewhere, they can't grief.  That means that if I am out in the middle of a public RP event, I'm less pissed about being ganked because I lose nothing.  It also means that there is not much incentive for someone looking to steal my grind spot that I had been using before they came in to steal it because they're stronger. Why not fight back?  Because I was there first.  This no EXP lose has be more inclined to fight back now since I don't lose anything.  I in fact, think it'll bring more OWPvP since the person getting attacked won't lose anything and they're encouraged to at least try it out over running.

Those who are talking about OH WELL they're gonna take my grind spot.  There are plenty of other games that offer grinding spots like this one and there is no OWPVP aspect to it.  There are ways around it. For starters, Why not just form your own group and then out kill the people who are stealing from you?  It's worked well in most other games.  If they out kill you, switch channels or just wait.  There are going to be spots that are crowded.  But the thing is there is no way to please either side in this.  I think that this patch does more good  than harm.

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Posted

Personally, I like this patch. I like the EXP changes.  That means that if someone is AFK somewhere, they can't grief.  That means that if I am out in the middle of a public RP event, I'm less pissed about being ganked because I lose nothing.  It also means that there is not much incentive for someone looking to steal my grind spot that I had been using before they came in to steal it because they're stronger. Why not fight back?  Because I was there first.  This no EXP lose has be more inclined to fight back now since I don't lose anything.  I in fact, think it'll bring more OWPvP since the person getting attacked won't lose anything and they're encouraged to at least try it out over running.

Those who are talking about OH WELL they're gonna take my grind spot.  There are plenty of other games that offer grinding spots like this one and there is no OWPVP aspect to it.  There are ways around it. For starters, Why not just form your own group and then out kill the people who are stealing from you?  It's worked well in most other games.  If they out kill you, switch channels or just wait.  There are going to be spots that are crowded.  But the thing is there is no way to please either side in this.  I think that this patch does more good  than harm.

AFKers still get griefed, nothing has changed on that front just how people go about it has. If you really annoy the right people they can even grief you at your grind spot by flagging up and stunning you or leaving you with very low HP so you die to PvE and still suffer all the penalties.

Now a whole group will just KS you as hard as they can instead of just saving everyone a bunch of time and flagging up to push you out.

It has NOT brought more PvP it's brought significantly less.

People don't want those other games with no OWPvP, that's why they purchased one with it. If we wanted other games we would be there not here.

Forming your own group sounds nice if you're solo or a very small group but that's not the reality for high end content like Sausans or Pirates, few are there alone. Changing channels has a cooldown and there's no gaurantee you wont just have the exact same problem on the next channel and now you have to wait 10-20-30 min just because others wont respect your grind? And again, other games are other games... many people, myself included, came here because BDO *WASN'T* those other games that have bent over backwards to cater to casuals and thumb hardcore minded or PvP players.

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Posted

You always talk the biggest load of horse shit. 

So what did I say in that post that was incorrect?

Perhaps you're one of those early KR open beta players who pushed for our version to have the XP loss that the developers had decided to remove, and now you're upset because ever since alpha your pro-PK position has been drowned out and now it's been changed?

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Posted

So what did I say in that post that was incorrect?

Perhaps you're one of those early KR open beta players who pushed for our version to have the XP loss that the developers had decided to remove, and now you're upset because ever since alpha your pro-PK position has been drowned out and now it's been changed?

You love the sound of your own vo- keyboard. 

 

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Posted

AFKers still get griefed, nothing has changed on that front just how people go about it has. If you really annoy the right people they can even grief you at your grind spot by flagging up and stunning you or leaving you with very low HP so you die to PvE and still suffer all the penalties.
Now a whole group will just KS you as hard as they can instead of just saving everyone a bunch of time and flagging up to push you out.

It has NOT brought more PvP it's brought significantly less.

People don't want those other games with no OWPvP, that's why they purchased one with it. If we wanted other games we would be there not here.

Forming your own group sounds nice if you're solo or a very small group but that's not the reality for high end content like Sausans or Pirates, few are there alone. Changing channels has a cooldown and there's no gaurantee you wont just have the exact same problem on the next channel and now you have to wait 10-20-30 min just because others wont respect your grind? And again, other games are other games... many people, myself included, came here because BDO *WASN'T* those other games that have bent over backwards to cater to casuals and thumb hardcore minded or PvP players.

I was just pointing out that there are other ways to take your grindspot back.  Not that I wanted to go back to those other games.  Was just an example xD

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Posted

I was just pointing out that there are other ways to take your grindspot back.  Not that I wanted to go back to those other games.  Was just an example xD

I understand, but you repeatedly comment on how it works for "other games" without paying much mind to how many of us flocked to this game *BECAUSE* it's not those "other games"

Those features work in very casual games that push out hardcore players and by and large hardcore players are left searching for a game that doesn't do those things.

It's natural that this change will upset people who explicitly came to BDO to get away from that and get angry that people who have already turned pretty much every western MMO into a casual fest.

I'm not hating on casual games, they are great and have their place... But NOT EVERY GAME NEEDS TO BE CASUAL.

If I want a casual game I'll pull out my cell phone or go download one of the 500 other casual mmo's that put me to sleep, I don't quite understand why everyone seems to want to make every game a copy of every other game in a genre that is already largely stagnant.

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Posted

I'm not "twisting" anything.

As I had understood it the complaints over the Korean PvP system appeared around an update in January 2015. This timeframe is when you see posts, articles, and write-ups appearing crying about how they killed PK'ing. Among the complaints was that there is 0 XP loss on PK death.

For example, the doom-and-gloom thread named "BDO Open PvP ruined" on black-desert from January 12, 2015.

In that thread the user states:

"-PvP death penalty is now meaningless (no Xp loss, mean the guy you killed can come back again and again and keep trolling you, while you lose all your good tendancy trying to make him leave)"
(emphasis mine)

Now... why would this player say the PvP death penalty is now meaningless if it had never had an XP penalty to it in the first place?

Additionally, the January 11, 2015 Korean BDO patch notes contain the following updates about PvP changes:

"5. If the character is dead because of PvP experience is not reduced"
...
"8. characters in Guild Wars death penalty (penalty) does not apply if you die."

http://bbs.black.game.daum.net/gaia/do/black/update/read?articleId=28&pageIndex=12&bbsId=BDN002

There was also the January 14, 2015 article on black-desert entitled "The naked truth about Black Desert Onlines current state of affairs [Open Beta]" which contained the following line:

"Fourth, reintroduce the loss of experience upon death since it works simultaneously as a deterrent and motivation in an open world PvP environment."
(emphasis mine)

Reintroduce? Don't you think that is a strange choice of word to employ if it never had an XP penalty in the first place?

In another thread didn't you claim to have been one of the people who contributed to that article? If so I'm rather surprised you would be unclear about this.

By saying Korea BDO launched with no XP loss you would be correct in that the official launch (July 14th, 2015) had no XP penalty on PK death, but the other launch was the 7 month long open beta beginning December 2014 that did have XP loss on PK death.

That launch is more relevant to this discussion as the same complaints arose back then over this change, in some cases raised by the same players who are now trying to change the NA/EU version.

And how many of those players were Korean BDO players still upset from approximately a year earlier when the XP penalty was removed in the Korean version?

For the past 3 months PK'ers had been accusing PvE players of "trying to change the game" because they wanted the PvP level either raised to 50, or the progression lock quest lowered to Lv44. It sounds like the only ones trying to change the game were those PK'ers, and that Daum made the mistake of listening to them rather than trusting the developers.

Clearly that gamble hasn't paid off with the developers putting this change in.

I had read the Valencia dates incorrectly, so I was wrong about it coinciding with our current content stage.

You can't make the argument that it has nothing to do with the Korean version though. Not when they made the same change long ago and the same arguments were made - in some cases by the same players who are now repeating those arguments. These players tried to change our version to what existed early on in the Korean open beta. The developers had changed it for a reason back then, and players here were unhappy with the previous system for a reason.

1. As i said, BDO launched with no exp loss.

It did have exp loss, together with many more penalties for death in cbts. For example in CBT1 you lost parts of your gear when you died and the enemy was able to pick them up.

95% of the players that played KR since launch and also played CBTs can confrim this. The others 5% are either dead or have a bad memory.

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Posted

I am going to put 1 million dollars on this table. but whoever touches it instantly dies. How much is that 1 million worth?

I am going to put OW PVP in this game, but if you kill someone you get penalized, how much is that PVP worth now?

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Posted

5K players of a guestimated player base of let's say hmmm 150k that's some impressive math skills yo

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