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Feedback - EXP Penalty Removal from PvP

5,205 posts in this topic

Posted

Thanks for allowing us to provide feedback. @CM_Jouska

While i understand the reasoning that @CM_Tytyes provided there is a completely different part of this equation that has been completely overlooked. It feels like PA/Daum sometimes makes changes based on a knee jerk reaction without looking at the implications of the decisions that have been made. 

As it stands at the moment, there are premium farming locations in the world. Those locations are protected by guilds and groups of players by either Declaring Guild Wars or flagging and taking the Karma hit to protect  their location.  This creates a competitive aspect of the game and gives players a reason to join guilds and group with other players. Smaller guilds or individuals who want to farm, still have the ability to do so in maybe slightly less contested areas or can channel hop to find an opening. 

With this change, you have made it impossible for people to defend the location that they are farming in. Classes are designed with different clear speeds and strengths. Rangers and Wizards/Witches are some of the best farming classes. I cant count the number of times, i have been farming at Sausans with a group when an un-guilded ranger comes up and starts to clear camps in our rotation in order to grief us. There damage output is spectacular and they are able to steal the mobs. In order to protect our rotation, our group would flag and then kill that player which makes their actions have a consequence. 

With the new changes, that player can now come and grief a group of players with no consequences. If they are flagged on and killed, they lose nothing. While the player who flagged, loses Karma. There is no longer a benefit to ever flag in pvp, as there is no gain, only a loss. 

While I understand the reasoning that was provided for not wanting players to be gated from progressing due to open world PVP. I feel like if you looked at the majority of your population, most people are not sitting with negative Karma due to the implications that come along with that. With these changes, there is no purpose to the Karma system. 

Please revert the changes back to how they were as the Karma system already helped to manage a healthy balance between open world PVP and just killing people randomly for no real reason.  Have faith in the systems that were designed. They work, there will always be exceptions to the rule, but the system did work for majority of the population.

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Posted

Karma needs to be removed, if this remains as it is

This I must agree with. If someone comes in and attacks the mobs you are already engaging, which tends to happen a lot, and will a lot more with this change, you should be able to kill them with no penalty. Griefing goes both ways people, Shouldn't be able to do whatever you want and mess up someone elses gameplay with no reprocussions and expect them to get penalized for retaliating. What this patch does is take the ability of the playerbase to police itself away by taking out punishments.

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Posted

Instead of voting on that Botted Strawpoll, vote on this one instead! It makes more sense! http://www.strawpoll.me/10372316 

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Posted

Open world means that you can attack anyone wherever you want wtf grind has to do with anything you imbecile. You don't like gear progression, you don't like owpvp then wtf are you still doing here just move on go back to your pvp arenas wherever they are already.

Again, thanks to proove that the BDO """"pvper"""" are just angry insulting kiddo. Top community thoses no skill grinder "pvper"

But seeing at your answer, you are obviously unable to get my point.

 

So whatever.

 

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Posted

Losing 1% exp to node and 0% to the town is a nice solution imo

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Posted

Investment ? sorry, but its not either a investment, its just spending time doing the same thing.

 

Well, BDO isnt only a pvp game, its 95% pve, so i play the pve. yeah i know many angry kiddo only spam mob spot to feel powerfull into that no skill pvp, but the game dont only offer that.

Surprising isnt it ?

 

Also, its not because its a "kr game" that requier some mob bash time, that it necessary need to have broken pvp for no skill grinder.

S rank derp spotted. Please disregard all future posts made by woots.

Let's all go play RPGs where the strength of our characters doesn't increase or matter. Sounds like an FPS or MOBA.  Should we just ditch all progression as a whole as well?  Why should people who level life skills get benefits others don't?  That's just not fair at all.

in·vest·ment
inˈves(t)mənt/
noun
noun: investment; plural noun: investments
  1. 1.
    the action or process of investing money for profit or material result.
    "a debate over private investment in road-building"
    synonyms:investing, speculationMore
     
     
     
     
     
    • a thing that is worth buying because it may be profitable or useful in the future.
      "a used car is rarely a good investment"
      synonyms:venturespeculationriskgambleMore
       
       
       
    • an act of devoting time, effort, or energy to a particular undertaking with the expectation of a worthwhile result.

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Posted (edited)

Open world means that you can attack anyone wherever you want wtf grind has to do with anything you imbecile. You don't like gear progression, you don't like owpvp then wtf are you still doing here just move on go back to your pvp arenas wherever they are already.

Open world does not mean that. Open world means there are no loading screens when going into a new zone....the -----? 

http://www.strawpoll.me/10372316

 

Edited by Nubsauce

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Posted

Field boss aren't a retard guild full of 16 year old griefers.

Now I see why you have so many posts. Obfuscate. Derail. Insult, lie. 

Most of the players in guilds are in guilds because they are social, they have careers, have kids and friends who play the game with them. They don't have time to pander to kids like you, who can't get your way, because despite all of your free time, you can't match the success of guilds, playing the game as the game was designed. You call them griefers, but most large guilds grind spots to get xp, in order to compete with other guilds. When someone gets in their way, most ask that someone to get out of the way. When that someone refuses, the guild makes that person get out of the way. 

Some people would burn hundreds of tears just to irritate a guild. Some would come back because they didn't have any XP to lose. War dec'd guilds would fight each other for a spot, or slow down progression of other guilds. Other than people with no XP to lose, most attrition over a grinding route was settled by who had the greater combination of numbers, gear and skill. 

Now it will never be settled. No one wins. No one loses.

You think this helps casuals who go to Sausans? You seem to speak for casuals, but how does this update even help them? A single high level/gear ranger can grind faster and more efficiently than a 5 man group of casuals. If they try to make the ranger leave by flagging, the ranger will destroy them. 

No, this doesn't help low level people level up faster. It just makes leveling harder for everyone. 

This change made things worse for everyone. Except griefers. The people you claim to speak out against. 

 

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Posted

Its ironic you feel entitled to a spot you cant hold by fighting for it. this isnt the shoe on the other foot at all.

 

You had recourse before, if you kill someone flaggin on you they lose xp. they lost karma flagging, they lose karma killing you...

 

Your mentality that youre entitled to farm where you cant hold it, and anyone who contests the spawn and is strong enough to hold it should be penalized, is the mentality on a level of pathetic.

You cant hold it? farm somewhere else.

 Yep because this games PvP is really all about skill........and I can't believe you typed people had recourse before with a straight face. We all know the karma penalty before is laughable as it could easily be grinded out quickly enough. 

The same mentality could be said about you feeling entitled to that spot in an mmo. If you are good enough you should be able to farm those mobs without an issue or how about you declare war on the person's guild and pk them without repercussions? Or maybe switch channel? But of course we all know everyone at high level is not in a guild and every channel has idiots who want to steal mobs from you. At the higher level worst case scenario they slow your grind down a little but at higher levels 1% loss in XP is enough to waste hours of work.  

So for me I know what I prefer and that is a little annoyance to having hours of work wasted just because some idiot decided it was fun to kill someone for the lol'z. And yes it does happen despite people trying to say otherwise. 

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Posted

S rank derp spotted. Please disregard all future posts made by woots.

Let's all go play RPGs where the strength of our characters doesn't increase or matter. Sounds like an FPS or MOBA.  Should we just ditch all progression as a whole as well?  Why should people who level life skills get benefits others don't?  That's just not fair at all.

in·vest·ment
inˈves(t)mənt/
noun
noun: investment; plural noun: investments
  1. 1.
    the action or process of investing money for profit or material result.
    "a debate over private investment in road-building"
    synonyms:investing, speculationMore
     
     
     
     
     
    • a thing that is worth buying because it may be profitable or useful in the future.
      "a used car is rarely a good investment"
      synonyms:venturespeculationriskgambleMore
       
       
       
    • an act of devoting time, effort, or energy to a particular undertaking with the expectation of a worthwhile result.

/yawn.

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Posted

This entire game is about greed. The entire world is completely designed around that concept. That's not a bad thing, Eve is designed the same way and it's an absolutely amazing social game.

The thing you don't really seem to grasp is that newer players don't need access to the most efficient grinding spots. It works like this - imagine the Sausan spot, as I think it's the easiest way to visualize this. I'm going to fudge the numbers a little bit to make it easier to understand, but the concept remains static.

At 100 AP, you can farm a singe large camp(think the massive one right before the wall), and it will start respawning as soon as you finish. This means if you go instead behind the wall, where there are dozens of smaller camps, you'll be able to farm those smaller camps *and get the exact same exp and loot rate* as farming the single larger camp. 

Now at 120 AP, you can farm that large camp and a medium one. But there are still enough small camps behind so that you can go there instead and get maximum efficiency for your AP back - that is, you'll be gaining exp back there at the same rate as in the the main spot, clearing your medium and large camp.

But at 140 is where you start really seeing yourself clear mobs quickly. You'll be able to clear 2 large packs and a few mediums. Now, if you start going back behind the wall, you're gonna find that you can kill the entire rotation, but the mobs will not have begun respawning yet. That means suddenly, going back there no longer yields you equivalent XP to farming in the main spot. It's about at this point where you will need to start competing with the strongest players, but until you get to this point YOU HAVE NO NEED TO CONTEST THE VETERANS. A newer player can grind at their maximum efficiency nearly anywhere in sausans, it's not until they start getting into veteran status that it becomes necessary for them to even think about the main spot.

Too me, it's greedy for poorly geared players to think they are entitled to sit in the absolute most efficient spot despite players like me existing, who can come along and solo farm faster than their entire party of 5, or even 1v5 them. Seriously, look at these screenshots. You think these players can clear the main rotation at max efficiency? I was there, I can tell you that in each case I was able to either solo or Duo faster than their entire group of 5 combined. They would take every single camp, despite only being able to clear 3 camps before the first one finished respawning. Greedy, inneffecient, and too weak to defend their spot against a single player.

0c0e31b44c.jpg17dcb654f7.jpgc0f3728329.jpg

 

 

All that bs just to justify the fact that you play this game as a job and want the gear gap to increase. Wanna gear whore? Do sieges when they come, grinding as it is is extremely dependant on gear and since most people dont even get the chance to go there and they get ganked by stupidly geared idiots skill is not a factor when it comes to pvp or fighting over zones. Guess what? You are now forced to share or move the f uck on and people will go there and grind and there's nothing you can do about it. You are just saying all this bs because you want to continue to gank people and just want everything for yourself. Deal with it or quit the game lol really

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Posted

More PvP heavy things are coming on Valencia & Siege update. And yes don't come and kill me for no reason or else you will pay the price. This change was obviously done for one single reason: lower level players getting no chance to grind in most spots. Which is what I've been suffering from. With the limited free time I have I've been playing this game as I enjoy it as it brings unique features on the table. It might be a video game but that doesn't mean you should be crushed by bigger guilds, you should have the right to level up without getting so much crap from other players. And if you do you shouldn't pay the price, they should.

the TOP end spots are contested... they dont need to be grinding there if they are lower without fighting for it.

Most of the spots for the sub 55 crowd, stay empty.

 

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Posted

This entire game is about greed. The entire world is completely designed around that concept. That's not a bad thing, Eve is designed the same way and it's an absolutely amazing social game.

The thing you don't really seem to grasp is that newer players don't need access to the most efficient grinding spots. It works like this - imagine the Sausan spot, as I think it's the easiest way to visualize this. I'm going to fudge the numbers a little bit to make it easier to understand, but the concept remains static.

At 100 AP, you can farm a singe large camp(think the massive one right before the wall), and it will start respawning as soon as you finish. This means if you go instead behind the wall, where there are dozens of smaller camps, you'll be able to farm those smaller camps *and get the exact same exp and loot rate* as farming the single larger camp. 

Now at 120 AP, you can farm that large camp and a medium one. But there are still enough small camps behind so that you can go there instead and get maximum efficiency for your AP back - that is, you'll be gaining exp back there at the same rate as in the the main spot, clearing your medium and large camp.

But at 140 is where you start really seeing yourself clear mobs quickly. You'll be able to clear 2 large packs and a few mediums. Now, if you start going back behind the wall, you're gonna find that you can kill the entire rotation, but the mobs will not have begun respawning yet. That means suddenly, going back there no longer yields you equivalent XP to farming in the main spot. It's about at this point where you will need to start competing with the strongest players, but until you get to this point YOU HAVE NO NEED TO CONTEST THE VETERANS. A newer player can grind at their maximum efficiency nearly anywhere in sausans, it's not until they start getting into veteran status that it becomes necessary for them to even think about the main spot.

Too me, it's greedy for poorly geared players to think they are entitled to sit in the absolute most efficient spot despite players like me existing, who can come along and solo farm faster than their entire party of 5, or even 1v5 them. Seriously, look at these screenshots. You think these players can clear the main rotation at max efficiency? I was there, I can tell you that in each case I was able to either solo or Duo faster than their entire group of 5 combined. They would take every single camp, despite only being able to clear 3 camps before the first one finished respawning. Greedy, inneffecient, and too weak to defend their spot against a single player.

0c0e31b44c.jpg17dcb654f7.jpgc0f3728329.jpg

 

 

Which is what I've been doing on Sausan yet big guilds still kill me as they kill any other player they will see. Why would I have to lose XP if I'm just grinding the small area and I don't interfere with their rotation? And what if you can clear the whole area yourself? The other player that can clear the whole area him/herself can still play in that areas as well. Just call it dibs and if someone else calls it dibs respect that and chose a different area. So far I got killed over and over even if  I was on the other side of the map and I didn't interfere. And how can weak players ever get stronger if they can't even get some progress going on with their game?

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Posted

It's a good update, it will end domination of alliances and give chance to small guilds and solo players.

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Posted

By far the worst thing I have ever seen done in this game, this is worse than what people left archaege for and charged the company back hundreds of thousands worth. GL DAUM! You are going to need it for this one if you don't fix it!

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Posted

When I was recommending this game to a friend one of the main attractions I mentioned was the fact that PvE is the goal you are aiming for when you PvP. It makes PvP meaningful, not just a question of fight, respawn, rinse, repeat that rapidly becomes boring and pointless.

Under the old system there were clear win and lose conditions. If you couldn't kill an invading group you couldn't keep your grind spot. There have been times when this happened to me and I accepted it as part of the game.

With the recent xp boosts and changes to some of the mobs other areas than just Sausan have become viable grinding spots. This means that players who are lower level/less well geared can still catch up so there seems to be no reason for this change.

People can vote in my poll here:

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Posted

No it should't you -----tard its owpvp game you want pve only game with pvp 'activites' gtfo to wow or gw this is not a game for you jeez.

Actually based on the patch today, one would be inclined to suggest that this is not the game for you... or your pk'ing cowardly mates - so perhaps you should considering "gtfo" :)

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Posted

the TOP end spots are contested... they dont need to be grinding there if they are lower without fighting for it.

Most of the spots for the sub 55 crowd, stay empty.

 

They don't need to be fighting for it, that's the thing. There is enough spots for everyone. People need to respect each other. I'm level 53 and I can't even grind in Sausan more than 10 minutes before I get randomly killed. At least I won't have to deal with XP loss anymore. If you want to be a troll and kill people for no reason, you should pay the price not me.

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Posted

Guys, just vote on this. http://www.strawpoll.me/10372316 

Solves all issues.

Except cancer...a Strawpoll can't solve that...

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Posted

All that bs just to justify the fact that you play this game as a job and want the gear gap to increase. Wanna gear whore? Do sieges when they come, grinding as it is is extremely dependant on gear and since most people dont even get the chance to go there and they get ganked by stupidly geared idiots skill is not a factor when it comes to pvp or fighting over zones. Guess what? You are now forced to share or move the f uck on and people will go there and grind and there's nothing you can do about it. You are just saying all this bs because you want to continue to gank people and just want everything for yourself. Deal with it or quit the game lol really

no, all that to say, the TOP end spots in this game ARE SUPPOSED TO BE FOUGHT OVER

 

 

You dont deserve it just because you walk in there, if you cant win, you go farm elsewhere.

As it is now, I could roll in on most of these shitters spawns, and take the majority of the mobs from their full 5 man party. You wanna hear crying? Wait till 1 person is killing them so fast that even with 5 they get nothing, and they are unable to pk him to get him outta their spawn.

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Posted

By far the worst thing I have ever seen done in this game, this is worse than what people left archaege for and charged the company back hundreds of thousands worth. GL DAUM! You are going to need it for this one if you don't fix it!

LOL, so dramatic. By far the best thing they did in my opinion. Finally some balance for newcomers. All these so-called hardcore "pvp-ers" can wait till the actual PvP aspects come within the next patches instead of patting themselves in the back about killing level 50 "noobs".

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Posted

likewise

I can hold it, however, why am i being imposed a karma penalty for having to fight for my spot?

 

Howbout we implement karma loss for anyone I have to kill to get them outta my spot?

Half what i lose killing them, they lose by being pkd, fair?

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Posted

I wanted to add my share. IF you Daum do not go back to the previous system I will take my money back to other game, and I really spend lots of euros per month.

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Posted

By far the worst thing I have ever seen done in this game, this is worse than what people left archaege for and charged the company back hundreds of thousands worth. GL DAUM! You are going to need it for this one if you don't fix it!

Question...how can you charge back if the pearls were already spent on items already used? They cant take away all those items, like horse skills and what not...sooo I guess they can charge back stuff they havent spent... ESPLAIN YOURSELF!

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