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Karma 2.0 - Where is it?

75 posts in this topic

Posted

If they wanted all that they should have made an in-game poll.

This is horseshit, The whole feedback thing is PR, just like it was with the karma v2.0 too. They will never act.

They acted on the whole Conqueror Horse Package drama - that thread hadn't just served as a PR stunt.

I don't know much about the whole Karma v2.0 thing, since I only joined in February; but unless Jouska or whoever had actually promised that it would be implemented, I don't get the PR argument. From what I heard though, it was just an idea Jouska put forward; a suggestion.

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Posted

1181242150111.png

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Posted (edited)

 

Since you, at DAUM spent precious office time with us, making this

Source Plz.

I call bullshit, Daum couldn't have possibly made that flow chart with respect to the CURRENT BUILD WE HAVE b/c the very first tier lists Gem-Loss as a possible death penalty for getting PK'd by another Flagged up player.   1% XP loss was never a big deal for Up-Levels I'll concede that point gladly that the last patch was basically Fluff Text for all but super minority 1% who got well in to the Softcap on XP gain per hour.  But otherwise this chart's riddled with crap that Daum would only ever have said "We'll incorporate as much of this as we can but no promises" and you shouldn't intentionally mislead the community about what they could even deliver to begin with without making a link to the original thread 

 

And if this Chart WAS created by them, then it would only be with Considerations for FUTURE Valencia updates which make leveling from 53 to 56 a more trivial matter that doesn't require direct competition within a single Fortress or other closed in space that could be dominated by a single Guild.  Meaning that the time to talk about it, is not now,  The time to talk about it would be AFTER proper stabilization and inclusion of that "XP Wellfare" content.  Sorry to say, but the Ayn Rand wannabes do not have any say in this matter and any changes which make PvP more hardcore again would only come as compensation for first making the Leveling and Gearing system more Carebear first

Edited by iller

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Posted (edited)

Jouska, or if you want to split hairs over it, a Daum employee made this mock up concept to propose to PA.
While he is indeed part of the company just because an employee jots something down isn't any promise that it will bear any fruit. I don't think he was ever given the authority to implement or even asked to come up with this system but rather something he came up with on his own accord that other Daum employees also liked, but ultimately the choice is not up to Daum.

And still anything proposed by DAUM offically, wether Jouska did it or the CEO of the company, if it was done during work hours, which it was, and in his job role, which it was, it is a design of DAUM's. Jouska is not independant of his company when doing such things while he remains an employee. The fact they have not commented on this issue says more than anything. A simple answer is all that is needed, but the silence screams incompetence. If PA didnt like the idea, then thats alls they need to say. If they never submitted the idea, thats all they need to say, if they never intended the idea to go anywhere other than paper so they didnt have to deal with the issue, to the point where the community is at each others throats and each side is threatening to quit... Then thats all they need to say, but staying silent almost confirms the latter.

Source Plz.

I call bullshit, Daum couldn't have possibly made that flow chart with respect to the CURRENT BUILD WE HAVE b/c the very first tier lists Gem-Loss as a possible death penalty for getting PK'd by another Flagged up player.   1% XP loss was never a big deal for Up-Levels I'll concede that point gladly that the last patch was basically Fluff Text for all but super minority 1% who got well in to the Softcap on XP gain per hour.  But otherwise this chart's riddled with crap that Daum would only ever have said "We'll incorporate as much of this as we can but no promises" and you shouldn't intentionally mislead the community about what they could even deliver to begin with without making a link to the original thread 

 

And if this Chart WAS created by them, then it would only be with Considerations for FUTURE Valencia updates which make leveling from 53 to 56 a more trivial matter that doesn't require direct competition within a single Fortress or other closed in space that could be dominated by a single Guild.  Meaning that the time to talk about it, is not now,  The time to talk about it would be AFTER proper stabilization and inclusion of that "XP Wellfare" content.  Sorry to say, but the Ayn Rand wannabes do not have any say in this matter and any changes which make PvP more hardcore again would only come as compensation for first making the Leveling and Gearing system more Carebear first

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/8044-updated-v20-bounty-hunters-karma-and-flagging-discussion/&page=1

Its also Stickied in PvP section right at the top. Kinda hard to miss. Thanks for rant about something you clearly have no knowledge of.

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/8038-pm-diary-22-cash-shop-and-more/  <--- in regards to Office time specifically.

They even describe step by step what they did in the Office during the discussion...... Anymore proof for you? I can get it seeming you were to lazy to use basic search functions or look at the stickied topics. :)

Currently small-scale PvP is heavily punished through Karma loss. Lowering the Karma penalty will result in more PK, which may work for PvP focused players but not for PvE players. Increasing Karma penalty doesn’t do the trick either obviously vice versa.

Actually this was the most important and also most difficult part to discuss with developers. We discussed several ideas and went back and forth on them.

For example we came up with a Vendetta System, which would in short, allow a player to call a Vendetta on max 5 players, based on the GvG system. So in short, you have to pay silver to keep up the Vendetta, but in return you can do unharmed PK. Repetitively calling Vendetta wouldn’t be possible as it would be tied to a cooldown. At some point we came to a dead-end on this matter, as it wouldn’t necessarily solve the issue. You could still do random ‘ganking’ of innocent players.

 

So we kept going…

 

Our main purpose was to come up with “a reason to kill”. My main point was and still is, that PK is a great feature, as long as you have a reason to kill or can see a reason why you get killed. Most games offer different factions, so if you get killed by the opposite faction, you obviously ran into a sworn enemy, so it was basically their duty to kill you. Some other games offer different PK maps with additional boosts such as increased EXP from monsters and better drops to give incentive to actually go there. If you get killed there, you will also understand why it happened, because you know what you’re getting yourself into, right?

So you can see our dilemma. Valencia Part II update, which has been recently released in Korea offers some additional PK/PvP features and offers some freedom to a certain extent. However, many players do not want to wait until Valencia.

 

So we kept going…

 

We brought up the old flagging system that many PKers requested. But it doesn’t really solve the issue as it brings up new issues. Such as the possibility to avoid the Karma penalty by attacking a player while he is engaged with monsters until he ultimately gets killed by the monsters (last hit). This way you could simply avoid getting the penalty for the kill, as the final strike would have been executed by the monster, not the player.

 

So we kept going…

 

We brainstormed a lot, also about some ‘rubbish’ ideas that didn’t lead anywhere, but that is the beauty of brainstorming, isn’t it? J

 

So we kept going…

 

Towards the end we brought up a ‘Bounty Hunter’ system, but developers were concerned about offering silver as a reward and being transferred in the process from one player to another, as it is not part of the game’s design.


Us: “Why don’t we simply use Karma as a reward?”

Devs: “Hmmm…. Interesting….”

 

An idea was born and we will be following up with this. So far we only have an early concept on paper that we are trying to refine. The direction is simple. Offer a bounty system where any player can set a bounty on another player. The reward for the ‘assassin’ would be karma.

The idea behind it in short, is displayed in the following scenario:

  1. PK1 kills PvE1
  2. PvE1 is pissed and sets bounty on PK1
  3. PK2 kills PvE2
  4. PK2 needs to refill his Karma
  5. PK2 kills PK1 to get Karma back
  6. ...Hunting season is opened!...

 

I know this is a very rough concept, but as explained, it only exists on paper for now and we are proceeding to refine it. We are not sure if this concept will be feasible, but we would like to get the first feedback on this topic. We have to keep in mind that we need to consider exceptional cases that would allow any sort of abuse, such as setting bounty on yourself, abusing the system to refill your karma more easily etc. Also it might be considered to increase karma penalty in general to create a paradigm shift away from ‘ganking’ (random killing without particular reason) towards bounty hunting (killing for a reason).
 

Aside from Karma other options are being considered as reward such as titles, achievements or a ranking system

Edited by Death's Proxy

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Posted

 

And still anything proposed by DAUM offically, wether Jouska did it or the CEO of the company, if it was done during work hours, which it was, and in his job role, which it was, it is a design of DAUM's. Jouska is not independant of his company when doing such things while he remains an employee. The fact they have not commented on this issue says more than anything. A simple answer is all that is needed, but the silence screams incompetence. If PA didnt like the idea, then thats alls they need to say. If they never submitted the idea, thats all they need to say, if they never intended the idea to go anywhere other than paper so they didnt have to deal with the issue, to the point where the community is at each others throats and each side is threatening to quit... Then thats all they need to say, but staying silent almost confirms the latter.

 

I don't disagree with you. I was more commenting that given Jouska's apparent role in the company it was never anything more than a suggestion with a tiny bit more weight behind it.

Lack of communication on the topic and really on this concern overall is not serving them well.

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Posted

Looks like CM's are abusing "V" skill after release.

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Posted

I'd like to see this. And obviously I would like to see an answer from any CMs.

Thanks.

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Posted

 

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/8044-updated-v20-bounty-hunters-karma-and-flagging-discussion/&page=1

Its also Stickied in PvP section right at the top. Kinda hard to miss. Thanks for rant about something you clearly have no knowledge of.

 

Bounty Hunter system which is WAY post-Valencia release.   ...in other words....  you failed big time pal.  

I can't believe other people are letting you be this intellectually dishonest and I think this thread should probably be locked for misrepresenting their "Promises"

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Posted (edited)

Bounty Hunter system which is WAY post-Valencia release.   ...in other words....  you failed big time pal.  

I can't believe other people are letting you be this intellectually dishonest and I think this thread should probably be locked for misrepresenting their "Promises"

Okay you are a clueless. I'm asking WHERE is it. Not why dont we have it. Geez.... Nor did i say they promised this. Im asking WHERE is it. As the TITLE suggests. Moron. This isnt about the bounty system, the bounty system might be unrelated even to this proposal as that is a different system for the KR version, this proposal was developed for EU/NA hence why the discussion from 4 months ago is on our forum. Stop whiteknighting and get a brain.

Edited by Death's Proxy

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Posted

Every BDO player right now towards Daum and PA.

Bad%2B%2BKarma%2BQuotes%2Band%2BSayings.

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Posted

In my opinion we must give a chance to Karma 2.0 like we did with this new karmas system. We don't lose anything trying it. Like we say in Spain, from lost to the river.

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Posted (edited)

Okay you are a clueless. I'm asking WHERE is it. Not why dont we have it. Geez....

No you're not, you're grasping at a Narrative that never existed.  This is the Strawman this thread is trying to project:

  • XP loss in "flag Up" open PVP was a consequence for not just the flagger but the person flagged upon
  • more consequences being added IN THE DISTANT FUTURE to accommodate new features being added to the system
  • ..thus.. all consequences currently in the game should have remained regardless of the leveling content situations being completely different

This is a total Gotcha masquerading as official Developer promises.  They promised no such status quo remaining in the immediate Present.

Edited by iller

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Posted

No you're not, you're grasping at a Narrative that never existed.  This is the Strawman this thread is trying to project:

  • XP loss in "flag Up" open PVP was a consequence for not just the flagger but the person flagged upon
  • more consequences being added IN THE DISTANT FUTURE to accommodate new features being added to the system
  • ..thus.. all consequences currently in the game should have remained regardless of the leveling content situations being completely different

This is a total Gotcha masquerading as official Developer promises.  They promised no such status quo remaining in the immediate Present.

And it doesnt change the original question regardless of your loose found conspiracy theory. You have already proven yourself to be uneducated on this matter.

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Posted

And it doesnt change the original question regardless of your loose found conspiracy theory. You have already proven yourself to be uneducated on this matter.

Let's assume your intentions were pure and you weren't trying to use this explicitly to imply that they promised 1 change and delivered the opposite.

What about the TIMING of this?  You still haven't answered that charge yet.   How does demanding more action on this front even begin to compete with the current Development schedule of the game which currently is focused in just phase1 of Valencia and *some* degree of testing Nodewars / Stabilizing NodeWars.   Nodewars aren't Flag-up PvP and have no interactions whatsoever with the Bounty System.  You can try and say I'm not educated on this topic but first you must prove that you even know anything about it to begin with.  How do these priorities Intersect if you're so smart and knowledgeable on them?  Please go into Detail and prove it

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Posted (edited)

Just implement it like this... the game's already dying due to all the other bullcrap and last week's patch only made it worse.

I didn't ever see someone complain about PvP EXP loss before this actually got changed, but apparently all the geared players have been preying on the weak ones. Or so I've been told by the carebear army.

 

And besides, you could just implement AFK-PK protection so all those poor full time fishers and horse trainers who chose to do so outside of safezones on a 45+ character can stop complaining.

Edited by Cirilla_Rianon

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Posted

Let's assume your intentions were pure and you weren't trying to use this explicitly to imply that they promised 1 change and delivered the opposite.

What about the TIMING of this?  You still haven't answered that charge yet.   How does demanding more action on this front even begin to compete with the current Development schedule of the game which currently is focused in just phase1 of Valencia and *some* degree of testing Nodewars / Stabilizing NodeWars.   Nodewars aren't Flag-up PvP and have no interactions whatsoever with the Bounty System.  You can try and say I'm not educated on this topic but first you must prove that you even know anything about it to begin with.  How do these priorities Intersect if you're so smart and knowledgeable on them?  Please go into Detail and prove it

Timing is that its 4 months since this debate took place and we have heard nothing since so were asking for an update. Baka.

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Posted

Timing is that its 4 months since this debate took place and we have heard nothing since so were asking for an update. Baka.

Okay, but were you expecting the Bounty System to already be in Alpha testing 4 months out from that post??  I'm not trying to be mean about this, I'm just trying to establish whether you considered all of the other System from KR that have been on the Roadmap-that-doesn't-Exist.  I mean we don't even know when to expect AwakenWeaps yet and another phase of Valencia + Ninja also has to come out before them.

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Posted

Okay, but were you expecting the Bounty System to already be in Alpha testing 4 months out from that post??  I'm not trying to be mean about this, I'm just trying to establish whether you considered all of the other System from KR that have been on the Roadmap-that-doesn't-Exist.  I mean we don't even know when to expect AwakenWeaps yet and another phase of Valencia + Ninja also has to come out before them.

I never said it should be in testing, or promised, im ASKING once again for an UPDATE...... can u even read english?

 

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I never said it should be in testing, or promised, im ASKING once again for an UPDATE...... can u even read english?

 

No tricks no traps....

We got scaped :P

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Posted

No tricks no traps....

We got scaped :P

I wonder if scapes proposed the exp removal from getting pked. Looks a lot like something he would do.

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Posted

Every BDO player right now towards Daum and PA.

Bad%2B%2BKarma%2BQuotes%2Band%2BSayings.

Yup

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Posted

They promised sieges, karma 2.0, , ninja release, improvements to their servers and so on while selling preorders and pearls. Instead they completely changed the core mechanics of PVP in an awful direction, pushed everything forward with "we still have crappy servers" excuses, and asked for more money through gimmicky cash shop features.

This is slowly turning out to be one gigantic scam. DAUM should be ashamed.

 

There are so many guilds that have one foot outside the door now, and if DAUM doesn't change this for the better quickly the game will be a ghost town of afk dwellers before the sieges are even in the game.

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Posted

I wonder if scapes proposed the exp removal from getting pked. Looks a lot like something he would do.

Didn't you see Scapes talking to Doc? Scapes said it was a good idea to remove XP penalty.

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Posted

Didn't you see Scapes talking to Doc? Scapes said it was a good idea to remove XP penalty.

We just need some RNG boxes in the cash shop and BDO will be all set.

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Posted

I'm surprised that after 3 days they have not made an official statement. Shows how incapabale this publisher is to run a game.

Even Trion's bullshit management did official statements in 3 days after such a mess. Yeah... They clearly don't give a damn.

So basically:

"We want Valencia!"

"And also Ninja/Kuno!"

"And also desync fixes!"

"And also all the awakenings! And the ones that aren't out yet!"

"And different field bosses! Make them easier! And make them harder!"

"And different class balance! Everything but me is overpowered!"

"And Node wars and sieges!"

"And bigger ships and naval combat!"

"And male ranger!"

"And no karma! And different karma!"

"AND WE WANT IT ALL NOOOOOOOOW!"

Personally I think a karma rework would be a huge benefit to the game, but with how -----y these forums are and how quick people are to scream "I'MMA DO A CHARGEBACK IF IT'S NOT EXACTLY HOW I WANT" I'm not surprised they don't post an update in every single thread begging for every single thing early.

You know if we are in need of so much things it is because they slack so hard at giving us those things that the list just keep piling up.
Karma changes is needed since CBT's. Ninja/Kuno should be available BEFORE Valencia. Desync fixes should never have existed, at least not that ugly. And Node Wars/Sieges existed in every version during the first month but our version, for bullshit reasons.
For most of us, they could delay Valencia by a month or two, same for awakenings, same for everything else you listed if at least they did the work they were supposed to on all the points I listed. Because yeah, it makes sense you know.

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