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The Changes Seem Fair.

129 posts in this topic

Posted

The changes seem to make things a little more fair.  You can STILL PK anyone you want, anytime you want.  You can still be rude, crude, offensive, and anit-carebear as much are you please.  You can kick people out of your claimed farm area.  You can still knock horse trainers to the ground and kill their mounts for spite.  You can still do all of the things you want, now there is a harsher penalty is all.  You are still free to do all these things!  Why so much salt over the karma loss?  You can still do anything you choose to. 

Just seems like now your tears will mix with your victims to make it all the more joyous for all of us. 

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Posted

Ellion's tears should be renamed to Griefer's Tears.

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Posted

And that is a problem....Good insight.

They don't want to lose, EVER. 

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Posted (edited)

...but daddy, those scrubby carebears won't leave my favorite grinding spots...

..oh the humanity!

 

Edited by AshOck

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Posted

I can't wait for you guys to get to the level of content where this actually matters

Then you will understand

And I will collect your tears

 

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Posted

I can't wait for you guys to get to the level of content where this actually matters

Then you will understand

And I will collect your tears

 

Please, explain this to us, the seemingly uneducated.  I wish to understand every side.

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Posted

Yes, you can still do all these things... "their" problem is... now no one has to put up with it anymore in fear of serious consequences.

With the old %1 XP loss per death these consequences more often then not meant loosing a whole day's progress of a casual player in a couple of seconds. And often even more. And the casual's only "offense" was going to a spot someone thought they do not "deserve" to be in. Or not paying enough attention all the time to some asshole sneaking up on you.

Frankly, that kind of harsh punishment was totally unacceptable - especially now that everyone seriously even thinking about getting into the upcoming content needs to be 55+. At the least.

Several self-proclaimed "top tier PvP guilds" abused this mechanic - for PvE gains actually which makes it even more funnier - to the fullest extent possible. And are now that they lost their "teeth" so to speak of course butt-hurt out "protesting and rioting" all over the place.

 

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Posted

They liked the exp penalty because they could gang up on other players to annoy them. They don't like PvP, they like annoying people, if it was about PvP they wouldn't care about this patch because you can still PK people, it's just not as annoying for everyone else now.

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Posted

Thus far, I can understand the would be victims side of things.  It really does seem to make it more fair, for the average casual player.  I would like to hear from an anti patch player, if one would chime in with something constructive, so that we can all get a better idea of how damaging this is to the normal PK oriented player.

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Posted

Please, explain this to us, the seemingly uneducated.  I wish to understand every side.

Let me begin with saying that I am a Mid tier player. Relaxed hardcore. Midcore. Semi casual hardcore. PVX too, to boot.

The problem with removing the penalty is that players aren't incentivized to leave a rotation after being killed. They can just keep coming back without issue. Meanwhile, the people who killed them still lose karma.

So it's a balance issue. The possibility of abuse is too high to ignore.

If DAUM is really determined to not revert these changes, to prevent abuse they'll need to add a Debuff to the PKed person so that they will lose something if they come back within X amount of time - I'd say 15 minutes, which should be enough time for an efficient rotation to regain the lost karma.

Or they could give us the system they proposed back in January.

PS apologies for my slow response. I am a slave to my cats.

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Posted (edited)

It seems that some PvPers, who once would have been satisfied to gank someone and crow about their victim's XP loss, have taken to following them around and stealing their kills until the victim gets frustrated enough to log off. Then the PvPer comes to the forums, and claims this proves the patch was a bad idea. What it really proves is, bullies will bully, and if we could identify them somehow, the game would be better off without them.

 

Note that on a deeper level, the sort of person that kills a player just for fun does so because they have a need to have an effect to compensate for personal deficiencies (presumably they are ineffectual in RL). Removing the XP loss reduces their ingame effect, so now they're campainging on the forums trying to revert the patch, again, seeking to have an effect.

 

(Reigne, my post just accidentally followed yours, it is not a response to you.)

Edited by Eireochd
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Posted

I'm starting to understand what you mean, in that, non PvP players seem to be able to more easily troll competitive players by claiming a spot to farm and not moving, even when faced with being forced to respawn over and over.  So, what would be a fair solution to those who won't move?  Who has the "rights" to which spot?  Only the highest level?  Only the strongest?  The first player there? 

There must be a solution that is fair for all.  There should be a penalty for people who chose to use another players grief as their source of fun.

As for what Eireochd just posted, those who seek that path, will find a way to fulfill their needs.

Thanks for keeping this civil, thus far, and opening up dialogue to make things more open to discussion, rather than just posting rhetoric!  Lets keep this up, so that the majority of players can enjoy BDO. 

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Posted (edited)

The changes seem to make things a little more fair.  You can STILL PK anyone you want, anytime you want.  You can still be rude, crude, offensive, and anit-carebear as much are you please.  You can kick people out of your claimed farm area.  You can still knock horse trainers to the ground and kill their mounts for spite.  You can still do all of the things you want, now there is a harsher penalty is all.  You are still free to do all these things!  Why so much salt over the karma loss?  You can still do anything you choose to. 

Just seems like now your tears will mix with your victims to make it all the more joyous for all of us. 

No you can't 'cause pk still loose karma and will end going red and loose 2% exp.

It would have been fair if we didn't loose karma.

Your second sentence just contradict the first by the way....

Edited by Drino

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Posted

Thus far, I can understand the would be victims side of things.  It really does seem to make it more fair, for the average casual player.  I would like to hear from an anti patch player, if one would chime in with something constructive, so that we can all get a better idea of how damaging this is to the normal PK oriented player.

Sorry, they are too busy rioting. Killing AFK fishers and horse trainers is definitely constructive, amirite? Has the added benefit of getting Daum/PA to do what they want, to boot. Oh, and those few who aren't rioting are also busy, making Lament of the Ganker threads in which they tell the world, in a most poetic form, how sad and confused they are to find themselves in a position of a victim because there's no help now against the vicious carebears.

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Posted

when you assume you make an "ass" out of "u" & "me"

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Posted

No you can't cause pk still loose karma and will end going red and loose 2% exp.

It would have been fair if we didn't loose karma.

Well, even though I can't agree with you, I am trying to understand why you believe there should be no penalty for PKing.  Even the earliest MMO's have had penalties(notoriety, karma loss, going red, bounties) to keep the population from total chaos and anarchy.  I could be wrong, mind you, but why should there be no penalty at all?

 

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Posted (edited)

It seems that some PvPers, who once would have been satisfied to gank someone and crow about their victim's XP loss, have taken to following them around and stealing their kills until the victim gets frustrated enough to log off. Then the PvPer comes to the forums, and claims this proves the patch was a bad idea. What it really proves is, bullies will bully, and if we could identify them somehow, the game would be better off without them.

These people who assume all pvp'ers are griefers feeding on someones pain :D So cute, i mean if you paint picture grim enough maybe developers will notice what kind of monsters and sociopaths play their game and they turn off pvp for good images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTC_FDxCTuIckaBJgi6PUs

 

 

Edited by RyuuGaWagaTekiWoKurau

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Posted

Make it time based... like day and time works but with karma. Day= as it is. Night = kills dont drop your karma. Carebears van grief all they want during the day while pvpers and competitive players can benefit from night exp and no karma loss to defend a spot. Thats the best thing i can come up with to please both sides.

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Posted

...but those scrubby carebears won't leave their favorite grinding spots...

..oh the humanity!

 

Now now, PvP just happen to be much longer for PvPers favorite PvE spot., that's all.

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Posted

These people who assume all pvp'ers are griefers feeding on someones pain :D So cute, i mean if you paint picture grim enough maybe developers will notice what kind of monsters and sociopaths play their game and they turn off pvp for good images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTC_FDxCTuIckaBJgi6PUs

 

 

This has been a very fiery topic I would like to keep civil.  What could you add, so that we can better understand the negative effect this will have on non griefing pvp players?

 

Make it time based... like day and time works but with karma. Day= as it is. Night = kills dont drop your karma. Carebears van grief all they want during the day while pvpers and competitive players can benefit from night exp and no karma loss to defend a spot. Thats the best thing i can come up with to please both sides.

this is a great point, but how would it still keep the non competitive players on their horses or fishing?  I like the idea of the night being more dangerous, that has merit.

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Posted

Let me begin with saying that I am a Mid tier player. Relaxed hardcore. Midcore. Semi casual hardcore. PVX too, to boot.

The problem with removing the penalty is that players aren't incentivized to leave a rotation after being killed. They can just keep coming back without issue. Meanwhile, the people who killed them still lose karma.

So it's a balance issue. The possibility of abuse is too high to ignore.

If DAUM is really determined to not revert these changes, to prevent abuse they'll need to add a Debuff to the PKed person so that they will lose something if they come back within X amount of time - I'd say 15 minutes, which should be enough time for an efficient rotation to regain the lost karma.

Or they could give us the system they proposed back in January.

PS apologies for my slow response. I am a slave to my cats.

You are blowing this out of proportion. This scenario existed before the change.

I know I don't go to any "Popular" grind spots if I am @‌ 30%+ between levels. Therefore when I farm Ogres, Skellies or Shadowknights, I have nothing to lose. Nearly all the players I know did this aswell, as it was just plain dumb to risk losing exp when all you had to do was finish a level.

Secondly, in the large group spots "Saucens, Pirates" All that was needed was to declare war and see who got bored first. Since there are no penalties to guild war pvp.

Very little has actually changed.

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Posted

That is something that i cant think of a solution for. For horse training, your only way is to afk ride in safe zones. For fisherman it will always carry a risk.

This has been a very fiery topic I would like to keep civil.  What could you add, so that we can better understand the negative effect this will have on non griefing pvp players?

 

this is a great point, but how would it still keep the non competitive players on their horses or fishing?  I like the idea of the night being more dangerous, that has merit.

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Posted

This has been a very fiery topic I would like to keep civil.  What could you add, so that we can better understand the negative effect this will have on non griefing pvp players?

 

I don't know maybe like 60%+ community trying to explain you thickheads that this change is producing more griefers if anything. It will not stop people from killing afkers and waste their hours of fishing/training it wont stop people ganking others when they feel like it.

All it really does is open window for obnoxious -----s that come to your spot where you/your group already grinding and he will follow you tag mobs so you get less xp he can't win by killing you but now he can win by griefing which is pathetic but that's what people do.

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Posted

All i know is, I've been playing since launch and only been attacked by another player once - who ran away as soon as he/she realised they couldn't out skill me.

The difference is now, when I am unfortunate enough to be out skilled - I wont have a panic attack and spill my cup of tea all over me like last time...

Daum, saving crotches since 2016.

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Posted (edited)

The changes seem to make things a little more fair.  You can STILL PK anyone you want, anytime you want.  You can still be rude, crude, offensive, and anit-carebear as much are you please.  You can kick people out of your claimed farm area.  You can still knock horse trainers to the ground and kill their mounts for spite.  You can still do all of the things you want, now there is a harsher penalty is all.  You are still free to do all these things!  Why so much salt over the karma loss?  You can still do anything you choose to. 

Just seems like now your tears will mix with your victims to make it all the more joyous for all of us. 

You misunderstand. Yes, PKers can still do everything they did pre-patch, but there is no point in doing it anymore.

Did you stop to consider why people PK? The majority of PvPers (yes, majority) PK because they get less mobs and thus less EXP if they share their area with someone else. Sure, there are people that PK for shits and giggles, but no matter how many "facts" you can come up with, the majority does it for their own profit. Because of the EXP loss change, the victim does not lose anything upon death anymore (not even time, because of node respawn) and can come back over and over again with no negative aspects from dying. Death means nothing if you were PKd now. The PvP player that PKd though, he still loses karma, and eventually he can no longer kill the player that keeps coming back, and has to either share (getting less EXP), hop channels (losing the spot he fought for and "won") or leave (again, losing the spot). This means a player with no skill or bad gear can "win" a spot simply by running in, dying, respawning, and running back over and over again. How is this fair?

Let me put it simply for you: people are salty about the whole karma system and EXP loss on death change because the current system rewards players for losing PvP and punishes players for winning PvP. There is no fear of death. Only fear of going negative karma.

Edited by Comrey
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