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gear keep us permanently under geared or limited


453 posts in this topic

Posted

So.... Your opinion is uninformed and based on a fraction of the game's current content. Therefore, your opinion should not be regarded? Thanks for clearing that up.

I'll state the earlier argument again since we seem to be getting a bit off track here.

 

I'm a level 55 warrior. You are also a level 55 warrior. I have full +18 gear. You have full +15 gear. We are relatively equally skilled, maybe you are a bit more skilled. However, I beat you in a PvP fight 100% of the time. Is this fair? Is this reasonable?

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Posted

First of all, don't put words in my mouth.

Secondly, that's not the point. The point is the fact that a +18 player will shit on a +15 player 100% of the time is a problem but you, for some reason, refuse to acknowledge it as one.

but how could u know more about pvp after playing a tamer v giant for a month in arena compared to a person who has done all forms of pvp in the game at high and low end for a year then still claim that what you said is valid is it the "Math' that dose not take into account the other factors involved in such or are you trying to make tamer a good class R.I.P Lolli

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Posted

but how could u know more about pvp after playing a tamer v giant for a month in arena compared to a person who has done all forms of pvp in the game at high and low end for a year then still claim that what you said is valid is it the "Math' that dose not take into account the other factors involved in such or are you trying to make tamer a good class R.I.P Lolli

Answer my question from earlier.

 

I'm a level 55 warrior. You are also a level 55 warrior. I have full +18 gear. You have full +15 gear. We are relatively equally skilled, maybe you are a bit more skilled. However, I beat you in a PvP fight 100% of the time unless I make a serious mistake. Is this fair in your eyes? Is this reasonable?

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Posted

Yes, but I do not have the KR client installed. I have also only played KR for a month or so and only dueled my friend, so I only have experience with Giant vs Tamer, so a duel would not prove much. You're missing the point I'm making. Unless it's really easy to get geared enough to be competitive, gear gaps are shit and make people quit the game.

So.... Your opinion is uninformed and based on a fraction of the game's current content. Therefore, your opinion should not be regarded? Thanks for clearing that up.

just got rekt y a guy with 3 posts halp someone call the salt police you just got asalted

Answer my question from earlier.

 

I'm a level 55 warrior. You are also a level 55 warrior. I have full +18 gear. You have full +15 gear. We are relatively equally skilled, maybe you are a bit more skilled. However, I beat you in a PvP fight 100% of the time unless I make a serious mistake. Is this fair in your eyes? Is this reasonable?

plz copy paste bait more m8

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Posted (edited)

just got rekt y a guy with 3 posts halp someone call the salt police you just got asalted

That's fine. Answer my question.

 

Fantastic. You're avoiding the question. You're avoiding it because you don't want to look bad, and answering the question will make you look bad.

 

If you say "yes, that's fair" or "yes, that's reasonable" then you believe that gear should be more important than skill. And you do, but you won't say it, because you'll lose the argument.

Edited by Jonn

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Posted

Answer my question from earlier.

 

I'm a level 55 warrior. You are also a level 55 warrior. I have full +18 gear. You have full +15 gear. We are relatively equally skilled, maybe you are a bit more skilled. However, I beat you in a PvP fight 100% of the time unless I make a serious mistake. Is this fair in your eyes? Is this reasonable?

I have a Kitana. You have a Kitana. I am 25 years old. You are 10 years old. We both trained at the school of Kirito arts, top of our class. However, I beat you 100% of the time. Is this fair? Is this reasonable?

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Posted

That's fine. Answer my question.

my answer has been stated previously it is more complex than a yes or no answer your failure to understand the points given in this thread because it exceeds your understanding is hilarious go back re read the comments and think about the responses skill + time and dedication will trump a player who has played for 1 month claim he is skilled when playing tamer and then disregard more experienced players information will do your self harm.  aka get gud or get rekt

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Posted (edited)

I have a Kitana. You have a Kitana. I am 25 years old. You are 10 years old. We both trained at the school of Kirito arts, top of our class. However, I beat you 100% of the time. Is this fair? Is this reasonable?

I've been playing street fighter 4 for 2 years. You have been playing for 1 month. I beat you 100% of the time. Is this fair? Of course it is.

 

You've been playing black desert for 2 years. You don't touch PvP, but you grind mobs for most of your playtime, and you have full +20 gear and you're level 60. I've been playing black desert for 3 months. I hit 55 and got +15 gear and spent the rest of my time fighting other players. I am vastly more skilled than you. We duel, you kill me 100% of the time. Is this fair? Of course not.

 

What a hilarious argument you just made.

Edited by Jonn

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Posted (edited)

The best solution for this would then make it easier to obtain(not shorter timeframe) +20 so it's not so rng based. This way we still have progression and after +20 there is still lvl progression, while we also got that you need to spend some time to reach +20 but you get a less random time to obtain it to get on equal footing as everyone else which are +20.

the first thing would maybe be to remove the loss on fail attempts?

Edited by NightShade

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Posted (edited)

Lineage 2 prove that pvp game with gear scaling is profitable, infact for 11 year old game lineage is really profitable game, if you see the charts Wild star that was wow clone died in 1 year going from 16 mil revenue to 1,7 mil ... proving making a clone of a profitable game isnt guaranteed success. Also as you can see Q3 of last year GW2 made 20,6 mil while L2 made 15,6 mil , two totally different game systems doing similar profit ... how is that even possible, should't L2 be dead after 11 year and not make only 30% less profit than your perfect pvp system gw2 have ?

2Z6iCPi.jpg?1

 

If you want successful game you need to make something unique, not copy existing games and expect to succeed, I guess thats the reason they want to make their own pvp/pk system and not do something similar like existing games.

I've seen that chart. It shows how poorly the game does in the west and how little it makes compared to others. L2 spent most of its life sub 100k subs in the west, and quite a lot of it sub 80k. It was literally carried by its success in KR. L2 also has what, 6 servers in the west, most with under 1k players on them? L2 also has a similar privileged as EvE, getting established before WoW changed the market. This isn't the same market as then. People expect different things. BDO also doesn't have a massive following in KR to carry it like Lineage 2 does.

BTW, I see no one here wanting to clone GW2 or others. Simply reduce gear gap.

Edited by Noth

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Posted

See my previous comment.  You sir are what's wrong with the genre.  "working hard".....  please.   Again, if you think spending time grinding mobs is "hard" then you should get a useful degree, join the military, or become a firefighter or something productive.  Comparing work to a video game is laughable and pathetic at best.  That said, nothing wrong with character "progression", but the stat scaling is ridiculous and will turn most people away from the game the after a few times being one shotted by these top geared players.  Oh, and I can smell your elitism through the monitor, and it's unsurprisingly reminiscent of Doritos and body oder...  Remember to scrub between the rolls dude.

 

I am sorry that you are unaware of the term context and what it means. Truly, I am. But just for the sake of clarification, did you just post on a video game forum implying that you play or will be playing said video game and then have the audacity to call someone who also plays the exact same video game some kind of neckbeard who probably eats Doritos? Not only is that the lamest cliche, but if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is. Did you in the same post try to insinuate that from someone's one paragraph post in which they correctly use the phrase "work hard" for gear to explain that continuing to grind and get the necessary currency to purchase/upgrade would be pushing harder then what the OP was saying they desired and equivocate that to mean that the usage of the word "work" meant only your personal definition of real life employment could be considered something worthwhile even after the fact that you even being on these forums means you spend your spare time doing the exact same thing that person does? I may just be speaking for myself, but quite frankly, anyone who jumps on a gaming forum and makes the sad attempt to talk down to someone as if they are a loser for merely being a member of the exact same community looks like a complete buffoon. Not only that, but did you then caboose that ridiculous commentary with an insult about someone you have never even met's weight? Are you ten? Oh, by the way, as for the genre? The genre is an mmo that first launched in Korea. Which, just in case you haven't played many, usually means there will be a lot of grinding involved. Actually, its probably one the most widely recognized facts about such games. So... I mean... You might want to actually understand the "genre" in general before you spout off at the keyboard. Just sayin'. Regardless of whether or not you happen to agree with Skiz's opinion, at least it is an educated one coming from an experienced source that has hands on gameplay. Eh, and by the way, since you're so into useful degrees and all that, you misspelled the word "odor". Unless you would like to claim that was a typo. I am sure you will excel at this game if you are under the misunderstanding that "o" and "e" are nearby on your keyboard.   

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Posted

Gear difference and rng will kill pvp in this game.

You have to try around 230 times to enchant from +19 gear to +20, to be 99% successful.

Even the +15-->+16 enchant gap will take 21 tries.

You can grind all the time you want, but its not guaranteed you even get +18 gear, let alone +20.

On the other hand this actually helps since maybe less than 1% of players will get 20+, thus chances that you get 1shot in the open world will decrease. But if you think making it to the top pvp rankings with skill, think again. These players are just super lucky with their enchants and will dominate pvp scene.

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Posted

If you're good enough to keep top gear, then you deserve to have it.

If you're not good enough to keep top gear, then you don't deserve to have it.

As for RNG? Eh, sometimes crap works sometimes it doesn't.

If you're good enough to keep trying then you probably deserve it.

NO handouts.

I believe in earning ones kill, not equality among gear, but the right to wear whatever they are wearing.
If I get something for killing 5k players that is better than what you have for killing 1k, go kill 4k more.
if you can't kill 4k more, get better at mastering your ability to kill.

But that's simply how I view games&pvp+who deserves to have what.

At the end of the day, if you've got great gear and suck at your class, I expect to still be able to kill you. Even if I have to bring some friends to bring you down. I'd expect for an elite player with elite gear to be able to kill off a few elite players with poor gear.
Be as good at your class as you want, if you're not playing in both fields, gear and mastery, then you're not worth your rank.

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Posted

Gear difference and rng will kill pvp in this game.

You have to try around 230 times to enchant from +19 gear to +20, to be 99% successful.

Even the +15-->+16 enchant gap will take 21 tries.

You can grind all the time you want, but its not guaranteed you even get +18 gear, let alone +20.

On the other hand this actually helps since maybe less than 1% of players will get 20+, thus chances that you get 1shot in the open world will decrease. But if you think making it to the top pvp rankings with skill, think again. These players are just super lucky with their enchants and will dominate pvp scene.

The +15 to +16 shouldn't take 21 tries if you've successfully fail-stacked.

 

Also, I've changed my mind a bit. I understand that most players aren't like me. Personally, I would like gear to matter 0% and skill to matter 100%. That is obviously not going to happen. I think that we can reach a middle-ground, together. Right now, from +15 to +20, the stat increase is 40%. Personally I believe that is too high and should be lowered, or balanced out from +1 to +20.. I understand that the majority of players think gear should play a role in PvP. I personally do not, but I would like to reach a middle-ground so we can all enjoy this game together.

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Posted (edited)

It's like asking "I don't have enuff time to play, so please could you put limits on people?"

No way.

Edited by Enzo

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Posted

The +15 to +16 shouldn't take 21 tries if you've successfully fail-stacked.

 

Also, I've changed my mind a bit. I understand that most players aren't like me. Personally, I would like gear to matter 0% and skill to matter 100%. That is obviously not going to happen. I think that we can reach a middle-ground, together. Right now, from +15 to +20, the stat increase is 40%. Personally I believe that is too high and should be lowered, or balanced out from +1 to +20.. I understand that the majority of players think gear should play a role in PvP. I personally do not, but I would like to reach a middle-ground so we can all enjoy this game together.

I like both, personally. I like working hard in both areas. And if someone isn't willing to keep up with that work then they simply shouldn't be on the same level.
This gives an economical standpoint for multiple playtypes in a game. (Not saying that BDO is this example, but in general). Crafters may not like combat, but make their money through, well, crafting.
killers may hate crafting and up-keeping with gear, so they may make their money by whoring themselves out to overpaying guilds or, farming.
Someone who does both may or may not end up excelling in both fields, thus leaving them ahead of everyone else. As they should be if they are working that hard.

Ideally that is how I'd want it to work. Not that it will work this way in BDO. But that is how I see it.

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Posted

The +15 to +16 shouldn't take 21 tries if you've successfully fail-stacked.

 

Also, I've changed my mind a bit. I understand that most players aren't like me. Personally, I would like gear to matter 0% and skill to matter 100%. That is obviously not going to happen. I think that we can reach a middle-ground, together. Right now, from +15 to +20, the stat increase is 40%. Personally I believe that is too high and should be lowered, or balanced out from +1 to +20.. I understand that the majority of players think gear should play a role in PvP. I personally do not, but I would like to reach a middle-ground so we can all enjoy this game together.

Problem is rebalancing everything then of bosses and such, wouldn't it be easier and better to remove losses on failed attempts / removing the rng factor to get to +20 so in the end everyone can get +20 even the most unlucky ones without removing progression?

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Posted

I like both, personally. I like working hard in both areas. And if someone isn't willing to keep up with that work then they simply shouldn't be on the same level.This gives an economical standpoint for multiple playtypes in a game. (Not saying that BDO is this example, but in general). Crafters may not like combat, but make their money through, well, crafting.
killers may hate crafting and up-keeping with gear, so they may make their money by whoring themselves out to overpaying guilds or, farming.
Someone who does both may or may not end up excelling in both fields, thus leaving them ahead of everyone else. As they should be if they are working that hard.

Ideally that is how I'd want it to work. Not that it will work this way in BDO. But that is how I see it.

I completely understand your viewpoint here. What do you think about smoothing out the enchanting system? Something like this would even out the playing field and I think would be a good balance that everyone can agree on.

Enchant.png.ed986bc9deafcdd04d1f7d2e6952

Problem is rebalancing everything then of bosses and such, wouldn't it be easier and better to remove losses on failed attempts / removing the rng factor to get to +20 so in the end everyone can get +20 even the most unlucky ones without removing progression?

Personally, I agree with you, but I don't think the majority of people would. The general MMORPG player enjoys progression. If they hit the gear cap, they lose that sense of needing to progress, and ultimately get bored of the game. Keeping the gear cap out of players reach by being incredibly difficult to attain is great for the progression-minded player, however, I think the boost in stats should not be as extreme, like in the chart above.

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Posted

Gear difference and rng will kill pvp in this game.

You have to try around 230 times to enchant from +19 gear to +20, to be 99% successful.

Even the +15-->+16 enchant gap will take 21 tries.

You can grind all the time you want, but its not guaranteed you even get +18 gear, let alone +20.

On the other hand this actually helps since maybe less than 1% of players will get 20+, thus chances that you get 1shot in the open world will decrease. But if you think making it to the top pvp rankings with skill, think again. These players are just super lucky with their enchants and will dominate pvp scene.

More fear mongering.

if you can get to +15 you can get to 17 and even 18.

16 to 17 is easier than 13 to 15. I wonder if I should ask a dev to post that all over the forums so you guys can't get away with stuff like this.

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Posted

I completely understand your viewpoint here. What do you think about smoothing out the enchanting system? Something like this would even out the playing field and I think would be a good balance that everyone can agree on.

Enchant.png.ed986bc9deafcdd04d1f7d2e6952

Personally, I agree with you, but I don't think the majority of people would. The general MMORPG player enjoys progression. If they hit the gear cap, they lose that sense of needing to progress, and ultimately get bored of the game. Keeping the gear cap out of players reach by being incredibly difficult to attain is great for the progression-minded player, however, I think the boost in stats should not be as extreme, like in the chart above.

They still got level progression :/ And +20 could still take a long time to achieve if the devs instead could make it take longer to get to +20.

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Posted

Enchant.png.ed986bc9deafcdd04d1f7d2e6952

This is beautiful ok, I'd have @CM_Jouska make a poster of this so I can hang it above my bed if this became reality.

The only thing this does is decrease the power strength between +15 and +20 while still keeping +20 plenty strong and something to strive for.

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Posted

I completely understand your viewpoint here. What do you think about smoothing out the enchanting system? Something like this would even out the playing field and I think would be a good balance that everyone can agree on.

Enchant.png.ed986bc9deafcdd04d1f7d2e6952

Ideally, though probably not going to happen in this game, I'd want enchants and upgrades to come from achievements and feats in game. Killing a very difficult boss / being a highly respected figure in economy / cold blooded killer / etc.

Think of my mentality as more so... Mandalorian. Elite at the top, until they are not longer worthy of being there.

But, I don't believe in everyone being on the same level, because everyone isn't. I don't believe in a fair playing ground for all.
Nah. I believe in a dynamic one. One that can be changed and molded based on the intricate choices made by those making them.

Again, probably not the game for that type of thinking.
So in this case, with BDO, I think I'd have to look into it more.

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Posted (edited)

More fear mongering.

if you can get to +15 you can get to 17 and even 18.

16 to 17 is easier than 13 to 15. I wonder if I should ask a dev to post that all over the forums so you guys can't get away with stuff like this.

I agree that you can get to +18 in a reasonable amount of time. Maybe a month to two months of fairly dedicated play? But wouldn't you agree to smooth out the progression from enchants above +15 to level out the playing field? I feel like the progression posted in that chart make a lot more sense than what we have currently.

Ideally, though probably not going to happen in this game, I'd want enchants and upgrades to come from achievements and feats in game. Killing a very difficult boss / being a highly respected figure in economy / cold blooded killer / etc.

Think of my mentality as more so... Mandalorian. Elite at the top, until they are not longer worthy of being there.

But, I don't believe in everyone being on the same level, because everyone isn't. I don't believe in a fair playing ground for all.
Nah. I believe in a dynamic one. One that can be changed and molded based on the intricate choices made by those making them.

Again, probably not the game for that type of thinking.
So in this case, with BDO, I think I'd have to look into it more.

I see. That actually sounds like a pretty cool system, I don't think it would work for this game, but maybe someday a game will implement things similar to what you proposed.

This is beautiful ok, I'd have @CM_Jouska make a poster of this so I can hang it above my bed if this became reality.

The only thing this does is decrease the power strength between +15 and +20 while still keeping +20 plenty strong and something to strive for.

Absolutely. I feel like this would make the game feel a hell of a lot better to progress in, while still keeping the higher enchants worth going for.

Edited by Jonn

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Posted (edited)

I see. That actually sounds like a pretty cool system, I don't think it would work for this game, but maybe someday a game will implement things similar to what you proposed.

Well, My team is working on planning for a game that has a system like this at the moment. If you want something done. . . .
But yeah. Would be nice to see something like that.

Not so much a system to keep elites on top, but a system that rewards people for working to get there.
Now if someone -----s up and gets wrekt, bye bye status and ranking.

As for BDO, Should everyone have a +20? Nah.
Should everyone have the chance to obtain it? Yeah, with work.
Should RNG govern whether or not everyone obtains it? Sortof(will elaborate)

  • I feel as if obtaining maxed anything should be backed by a feat. Not so much pure grinding(and if so, something not everyone can and will be willing to do and SURELY NOT SOMETHING THAT CAN BE OBTAINED VIA SHORTCUT THROUGH CASH SHOP, but can be obtainable through both either a crafting path or combat path.
  • As for RNG, Drop and enchant based is fine I suppose. Their current system as I understand it, has a fail then increase for success system, which is great in my eyes. So long as that sticks around, keep it.
  • I believe there should be an item that is required to +20 that you can only get from respective followings(Crafting & || Combat(PvE/PvP)).
Edited by War

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