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gear keep us permanently under geared or limited


453 posts in this topic

Posted

 

I'm not afraid of it. I simply don't believe that those who don't deserve to be there, shouldn't be there. If they do deserve it then that is probably why they have it. Regardless of how they got it, they must deserve it, have done something to get it. Else they would not have it.

I am telling you people right now. The last thing you want is NORMALIZED not balanced, PvP.(As any type of gear/class/etc. can be "balanced".)
You're going to want that advantage you went out and grinned hard for.

Also I don't know what your definition of "hardcore gaming" is, but mine resides in what a player does. Not how much time they spend, but how much hard work they put into the core of the game, lol...

Are you afraid of having to start over if you fail your +19?

I will agree to some extent though. It can be annoying having to start over on a +whatever weapon.
But when you get that +20 man it's gonna feel good.

Ok, so it's mainly the time and effort put into getting the +20 and i agree that it's not something you should get given too you but something you should work for and i agree.

Problem is that some can get it alot easier thus putting in less effort than someone else, which is why i would like to take out some of the rng.

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Posted

and long term =/= luck =/= skill

Normalization =/= balance.

If you're worried about 60s killing 55s I think you're interested in the wrong types of games. That crap is going to happen because douchebags exist.
I have advice for you though.
Make a good 60 friend, or 5+ 55 friends.

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Posted

I wasn't around for a couple of days and look what happened.

And what does that prove? 15+ is literally nothing, you will get one-shot in majority of cases. For a lot of people a month of "hardcore" gaming is a lot, just to obtain something which can be considered only a base. Seriously, grinding mobs and silly world bosses isn't a skill, it's something everyone can do and will do.

It's incredibly amusing to see a bunch of people failing to understand why the current endgame enchancement progression is broken as hell; it's the same exact story like with the past PvE vs PvP discussion, where people are looking forward at a couple of nearest weeks/months at most and unable to see a bigger picture outside of it.

Alright a month to get a base to catch up to people who have been hardcore playing the game for a year is nothing like seriously. Besides i can fight someone in full +17's chances are i wont win but i have a chance

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Posted (edited)

You guys do know that at +15 gear Tamers cannot be beaten in pvp. Until the gear cap changes they will be super over powered.

 

If the goal of the topic is  balance keeping +15 is not the way.

Edited by Thinker

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Posted (edited)

Ok, so it's mainly the time and effort put into getting the +20 and i agree that it's not something you should get given too you but something you should work for and i agree.

Problem is that some can get it alot easier thus putting in less effort than someone else, which is why i would like to take out some of the rng.

I can see your problem with this. But to it, I respond;

If these people are not on the same mastery level as the others that have it, they will get rekt. And then, as Cat is afraid of, end up picking on lowbies.
But if those lowbies have any types of witts about them, they will make some friends that can get out there on those high tier horses and pick off the jerk killing 55s. Probably causing him to screw up immensely because by this point, he will have tons of - karma.

You're right. There will be people who will have obtained it "easier", but personally, I still don't see this as a problem, but simply another mechanic to overcome in the light of it all.

You guys do know that at +15 gear Tamers cannot be beaten in pvp. Until the gear cap changes they will be super over powered.

Can't say that for every tamer vs every player.
As skill will vary.

Gear is not the only factor here, simply another to heed attention to, as it should be.

Edited by War

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Posted

Ye but, assuming I get that +20 I don't want to go to oneshot every ppls. 

Back in times I was for months in the best guild of italian server of Shaiya. We were almost all fully geared but only a bounch really skilled (I was not at that time, honestly).

When there was PvP and there was my guild involved, rest of ppls went offline cause the difference in gear was absolutely large that even in 7-8 we could kill 25/30 other ppls. 

I was a battle guardian, the most op class and classbuild of the game. I litterally could handle 10 mid geared ppls focusing me. 80% cause of gears, 20% cause of skills.

For me the ballance is exactly the opposit.

U must have motivations to gear up but also to get good with your skills, let's say 50% gear and 50% skills is a better compromise.

Obviusly that percentages are arbitrary and only on my mind set. I can't know what those percentages might be for u.

Sorry my bad english.

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Posted (edited)

honestly the best solution i could think of is... why dont we just have a toggle option that lets us pvp or not.

and make it like a 3 day cooldown or something

 

but then +20 on pve content would be WAY too streamlined. im not talking about pvp alone. im concerned about pve being TOO shallow

Edited by CatEarHero

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Posted (edited)

Ye but, assuming I get that +20 I don't want to go to oneshot every ppls. 

Back in times I was for months in the best guild of italian server of Shaiya. We were almost all fully geared but only a bounch really skilled (I was not at that time, honestly).

When there was PvP and there was my guild involved, rest of ppls went offline cause the difference in gear was absolutely large that even in 7-8 we could kill 25/30 other ppls. 

I was a battle guardian, the most op class and classbuild of the game. I litterally could handle 10 mid geared ppls focusing me. 80% cause of gears, 20% cause of skills.

For me the ballance is exactly the opposit.

U must have motivations to gear up but also to get good with your skills, let's say 50% gear and 50% skills is a better compromise.

Obviusly that percentages are arbitrary and only on my mind set. I can't know what those percentages might be for u.

Sorry my bad english.

Then fight people on your level fam.
Why dirty your hands with people not worth your time.

No worries. We can pvp 29/99 days out of the week. I don't care what your gear is.
My goal in every pvp game is to find out how to kill regardless of the circumstance. Even if it means bringing friends / resulting to "dirty trickery".
This is what it means, to me, to be a Warrior.

 

honestly the best solution i could think of is... why dont we just have a toggle option that lets us pvp or not.

and make it like a 3 day cooldown or something

 

but then +20 on pve content would be WAY too streamlined. im not talking about pvp alone. im concerned about pve being TOO shallow

wat.
so what, i turn my pvp off and I have to wait 3 days to kill another person?

Hell no.(Granted i might end up keeping my pvp on 24/7)

Edited by War
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Posted

Can't say that for every tamer vs every player.As skill will vary.

Gear is not the only factor here, simply another to heed attention to, as it should be.

I'm talking about ease to defeat them. At +15 its stupidly difficult 1v1 even with high skill. Even if you get the upper hand with a grab or knockdown the pet will destroy you.

honestly the best solution i could think of is... why dont we just have a toggle option that lets us pvp or not.

and make it like a 3 day cooldown or something

 

but then +20 on pve content would be WAY too streamlined. im not talking about pvp alone. im concerned about pve being TOO shallow

Toggling pvp would destroy the game. You want to make the game better for you, but if you got your way you'd be the only one playing in 3 months. +RPers

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Posted (edited)

I'm talking about ease to defeat them. At +15 its stupidly difficult 1v1 even with high skill. Even if you get the upper hand with a grab or knockdown the pet will destroy you.

Best bring a friend.
I wouldn't want my pvp to ever have a 1v1 situation for every occurrence in a bleeding MMORPG.

MMO, MMO, MMO. If there is something you can't do alone, bring a friend.
or like an entire guild.

the entire 1v1 balance/normalization stuff has always been //pukeworthy to me.
Especially when we are talking MMORPGs.

That being said, I am War. I'm quite used to taking on 3+ dudes(or dudetts) at once.

lellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

Edited by War

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Posted

Then fight people on your level fam.Why dirty your hands with people not worth your time.

No worries. We can pvp 29/99 days out of the week. I don't care what your gear is.
My goal in every pvp game is to find out how to kill regardless of the circumstance. Even if it means bringing friends / resulting to "dirty trickery".
This is what it means, to me, to be a Warrior.

I like your mindset and I overall agree, but here there's no way to inspect a player.

In TERA for example u can inspect a player and se after u killed him or he killed u (if u don't notice it by raw damage of skills and oveall ability of your opponent to use his character ) if it actually was a fair fight or not.

Here most of the times u can't. 

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Posted (edited)

Best bring a friend.
I wouldn't want my pvp to ever have a 1v1 situation for every occurrence in a bleeding MMORPG.

MMO, MMO, MMO. If there is something you can't do alone, bring a friend.
or like an entire guild.

players farm alone in BDO most of the time. (For $ sake). If you duel, is  usually 1v1. if you want to take 3 players on your own tamer is for you. At least in the start.

Edited by Thinker

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Posted (edited)

I like your mindset and I overall agree, but here there's no way to inspect a player.

In TERA for example u can inspect a player and se after u killed him or he killed u (if u don't notice it by raw damage of skills and oveall ability of your opponent to use his character ) if it actually was a fair fight or not.

Here most of the times u can't. 

Then you must find out by trying ;)

God I wish you could see my face right now. I'm so hype man. Sooooo -----ing hype for this game.

FINALLY.

A game where we have to work and pay heed/mind to what we have to do and how it will effect things around us.

This is SUCH a turn on right now.
-----. I can't wait to kill.

players farm alone in BDO most of the time. (For $ sake). If you duel, is  usually 1v1

Then that's their problem, man. You don't have to farm alone, so why do it. Risk vs reward, is all I see from that post. Yeah, you make more cash farming alone, but you risk getting 1v1'd and wrekt.

Find yourself a ranger friend to scout out the lands while you farm and give him a % of the earnings.

Ugh thinking about that turns me on too.
PAY ME TO BE A MERC. I WILL PROTECT YOU AS YOU FARM.

For every bloodlustful kill I earn, i'll take off 1% of how much you want to may me for guarding for you.

Dude i'm totally going to use my friends as bait like I do in Battlefield tournaments and crap nnnng.
Go run around so I can kill snipers then kill ground forces. nnnnnnnngggngngnngng -drool.

Edited by War

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Posted

Then you must find out by trying ;)

God I wish you could see my face right now. I'm so hype man. Sooooo -----ing hype for this game.

FINALLY.

A game where we have to work and pay heed/mind to what we have to do and how it will effect things around us.

This is SUCH a turn on right now.
-----. I can't wait to kill.

Then that's their problem, man. You don't have to farm alone, so why do it. Risk vs reward, is all I see from that post. Yeah, you make more cash farming alone, but you risk getting 1v1'd and wrekt.

Find yourself a ranger friend to scout out the lands while you farm and give him a % of the earnings.

Ugh thinking about that turns me on too.
PAY ME TO BE A MERC. I WILL PROTECT YOU AS YOU FARM.

For every bloodlustful kill I earn, i'll take off 1% of how much you want to may me for guarding for you.

im just saying 1v1 situations happen often open world. I remember riding my horse at max speed and getting knocked down and 4 shot by tamer AOEs. so fast. but ... that was early on. Tamers suck at +20 release.

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Posted (edited)

im just saying 1v1 situations happen often open world. I remember riding my horse at max speed and getting knocked down and 4 shot by tamer AOEs. so fast. but ... that was early on. Tamers suck at +20 release.

I don't doubt that they will. Much like any pvp game (Played the shit out of AA), it will happen.

But yo. This is all one big server for us. Take some friends to their house, line up, fire arrows, profit.

We will have this pleasure man. By Odin's might, yes. We will have this pleasure.

Sure. You'll get killed by people stronger than you.
Hell I will to.
Hell I want to.

Because I'll catch up.
Whether it's by bringing my mates out to get back/start a war
Or whether it's to improve my gear/skill/etc. to get to the point where I can wipe the blood off my ego stained ledger.

 

LMFAO you reminded me man. In AA NA Alpha, I had this guild leader named Shin.
Where he turned out to be a big idiot, he did speak some wise words;

"Let's show them the dangers, of traveling alone."
Every time before overwhelming off of his horse to shadow-smite the shit out of someone.

The lesson I learned from this?
MMORPGs are Massive Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Games.
Don't be afraid to find balance in the game through making friends that play other classes.

That is true pvp in my eyes.
A group of 5 bringing counters to a group of 5 that killed 1 or 2 from before.
nnng yes yes yes. Yessssss yassssss yis.

I'm sorry y'all. I've been trying so hard to contain the hype about games like this, star citizen and escape from tarkov. Typing all of this isn't helping me contain that hype.

Edited by War

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Posted

It's not about 1v1 balance, or class balance. It's an aspect, that decides about game's and playerbase's longevity.

I am not against "no lifers" having an edge in-game, they completely deserve it for sacrificing hours upon hours of their time into the game. I'm against systems, which prove to be nothing more than a silly timesink content gating, toppled with ludicrous ammounts of RNG. Current enchancement imbalance also takes out the "skill" aspect from the game almost completely. I wish for BDO to be mostly skill-based, where gear will still matter but not to the point where a mere, lucky +2 upgrade over +15 decides about your (and your friends) existence.

The enchanting imbalance will kill endgame pvp and the whole game in a longer run, if not fixed. Mark my words. The sole 5 levels on weapon from +15 to +20 is around 45-65% (iirc) of overall AP increase. Same for DP on gear. I shouldn't even have to explain how broken that is.

It needs to be gone. Whatever they do - it's up to them. Two most viable choices are:

1) Rebalance the gain on armor enchants. Low level enchanting brings the majority of power increase (65-85%), while the last 5+ give only a small increase, but still something to be considered for min/maxing your gear. There were also numerous other ideas, to actually still make it worth to try and reach max enchant on gear (an incentive), like glowing/burning weapons or entirely different looking, "special" weapon models, with designs that could also be affected by your alignment (positive/negative karma at enchanting success).

2) Remove the last goddamn +5 levels and rebalance the whole content.

I seriously hope we'll know their plans in the next PM Diary. This game is rekd otherwise and opens a whole gate of future p2w possibilities.

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Posted (edited)

It's not about 1v1 balance, or class balance. It's an aspect, that decides about game's and playerbase's longevity.

I am not against "no lifers" having an edge in-game, they completely deserve it for sacrificing hours upon hours of their time into the game. I'm against systems, which prove to be nothing more than a silly timesink content gating, toppled with ludicrous ammounts of RNG. Current enchancement imbalance also takes out the "skill" aspect from the game almost completely. I wish for BDO to be mostly skill-based, where gear will still matter but not to the point where a mere, lucky +2 upgrade over +15 decides about your (and your friends) existence.

Now this I may be able to potentially agree to.
Though I will state again, I personally don't have any issue with the current system of resetting gear on failure, As for the power of the gear. Well. That may be a bit of a problem.

But I'd rather take 99 lashes than have it removed because people don't want to try and math out a new system.
That is not how we solve problems as intelligent gamers.
Stahp.

Wish I had more likes for @Chrono20

Edited by War
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Posted

200_s.gif

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Posted

Now this I may be able to potentially agree to.Though I will state again, I personally don't have any issue with the current system of resetting gear on failure, As for the power of the gear. Well. That may be a bit of a problem.

But I'd rather take 99 lashes than have it removed because people don't want to try and math out a new system.
That is not how we solve problems as intelligent gamers.
Stahp.

Wish I had more likes for @Chrono20

actually there are a few people that mathed out some fairly decent new +20 paths

but either the pvpers get angry and disagree, or someone thinks something better may come along. its something that needs to be looked at now though more than ever prior to media being released

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Posted

actually there are a few people that mathed out some fairly decent new +20 paths

but either the pvpers get angry and disagree, or someone thinks something better may come along. its something that needs to be looked at now though more than ever prior to media being released

Agreed. If It's as broken as people say it is, agreed.
As for the system itself, I don't mind it.

The numbers is what it sounds like y'all have a problem with.
if the numbers are wonky, then I agree, needs to be changed.

The system as it is, should stay I think. I'll look into it after this audit and do some hardcore analysis.
Y'all haven't seen me do some maths yet so.

best ductape your pantaloons on.

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Posted

 

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Posted

Just one question, why do you need so much gear progression after lvl 50 when you got level progression? 

 

The soft cap will be level 50 when the game releases, so their won’t be any real level progression until the next big patch.

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Posted

But I'd rather take 99 lashes

whip_mov3.gif

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Posted

no, what will make me quit is a game like vindictus in which its nearly impossible to get a maxed out piece of gear.

This hit me right in the feels. Vindictus.. ahhhhhh, the memories. But near impossible? Lol I have a capped spear Lann (attack, crit, bal, high Def and 70spd).. gears worth over 10b, I spent maybe 1b making it. +10-+14 in one shot before a fail. For those of you that don't know.. +10-+11 and +11-12 in Vindictus =40% success. +12-+13 +13-+14 and +14-+15 =33% success. Low as he'll chances, but the quoted comment of "near impossible" is simply not true.. and in BDO... gear doesn't even blow up after a certain point upon fail! After +8 in Vindictus - your gear will blow up to pieces if you fail!!

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Posted

look it up. its ranger 1 vs 50.

she ganked ppl in pvp. im going by what i see. but i would totally quit this game if that ever happened to me if it takes 20+ hrs to get 10% exp and idiots come by and ruin that progress without having even a fight

literally everything that video shows is that it might be benefitial for your own gameplay to actually fight back. it does not matter what level that ranger is. nor does it matter what equipment that ranger is using. if the 50 players react like they do in the video (wich is as good as completly ignoring that ranger) you could literally do what said ranger did butt naked with an equal level character. so please if you go by what you see, at least analyze it. even pve mobs fight back way more than this group.

leaving that video aside, keeping the equipment locked to a low grade or lowering the gap between the grades takes away one of the main reasons to actually grind at all.

another thing that i dont understand is, why you would expect to be even remotly close, in terms of power, to someone that invested vastly more time into his equipment then you did? yes skill matters, but so does equipment. both are heavily dependend on the amount of time you are willing to dedicate into those aspects. if you want to compete at the very top you will need both. if you want to compete on a casual level you wont be competing for an above avarege level. in my opinion its highly ignorant to relativate the gap between casual and dedicated players even more. the diffrence between the grades is laughably low anyway, if you compare it to other games.

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