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A Calmer Look at PVP After the Patch: Pros & Cons


Do you want xp loss on postive karma death?   71 votes

  1. 1. Do you want xp loss on postive karma death?

    • Yes
      45
    • No
      26

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

24 posts in this topic

Posted

I am tired of reading threads that have polls with stupid options. I wanted useful numbers.

Beyond that these are the current pros and cons I see with the debate. Feel free to add discourse, or whatever.

Pros:

  • It is harder to hold farming spots, this possible will slow down the level creep, something I think the majority of people want in the interest of competition.
  • Lonewolfs don't have to buy wars in order to participate in the frenzy. You can die more before punishment.
  • tba?

Cons:

  • People can grief you to the point where you have to spend money on a war.
  • tba?

 

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Posted

As a "hardcore" PvPer, I personally like the fact that I don't have to spend pearls if I die in pvp or lose xp.  That system was imbalanced anyways, as 1% at 45 (first level of pvp) is a single mob pull, roughly 5 seconds vs hours upon hours around level 60.  Some reduction was needed at the higher tiers of gameplay.

That being said, I am against these changes unless they add a fix to what was really the underlying problem, the lack of respawn timers and the fact that you rez within 100 yards of your death regardless of where you are.  These two things are the true cause of the misery that has become grinding.  

On top of that, they are also the root of the problem with GvG in its current state.  If you are the winning party, you slowly get drawn in to the closest node where it becomes a shitfight with the other side attempting to zerg you down from the node.  If you don't stay near the node, anyone from your side that dies is stuck there and farmed indefinitely unless they spawn at town, in which case it may be quite a long time before they get back.   If you are the side that is losing, you are basically forced to either have everyone spawn at town (which more often than not concludes the entire fight, as the enemy is usually gone by the time you get back). or you zerg into them till you hopefully wipe them by running them out of potions or simply overwhelming them.  None of this is really fun for either side.

TLDR: Bring in rez timers for pvp, or force respawns in pvp to be further away.

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Posted

How many polls so far ? how many  threads so far ?

Players have no problem griefing before because there is no delevel in the game. I can setup a toon for level 52 and grief you all day. I lose nothing and gain your time for it. So your con has no weight.

Truth is players want to be able to dominate areas to get items to sell to the AH to get cash for it.  There is nothing wrong in dominating the area. If you want to keep dominating a area you just going to have to paid for it at some point. 

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Posted

As a "hardcore" PvPer, I personally like the fact that I don't have to spend pearls if I die in pvp or lose xp.  That system was imbalanced anyways, as 1% at 45 (first level of pvp) is a single mob pull, roughly 5 seconds vs hours upon hours around level 60.  Some reduction was needed at the higher tiers of gameplay.

That being said, I am against these changes unless they add a fix to what was really the underlying problem, the lack of respawn timers and the fact that you rez within 100 yards of your death regardless of where you are.  These two things are the true cause of the misery that has become grinding.  

On top of that, they are also the root of the problem with GvG in its current state.  If you are the winning party, you slowly get drawn in to the closest node where it becomes a shitfight with the other side attempting to zerg you down from the node.  If you don't stay near the node, anyone from your side that dies is stuck there and farmed indefinitely unless they spawn at town, in which case it may be quite a long time before they get back.   If you are the side that is losing, you are basically forced to either have everyone spawn at town (which more often than not concludes the entire fight, as the enemy is usually gone by the time you get back). or you zerg into them till you hopefully wipe them by running them out of potions or simply overwhelming them.  None of this is really fun for either side.

TLDR: Bring in rez timers for pvp, or force respawns in pvp to be further away.

There is the guild skill flag of determination which creates a private respawn for the guild at the gm location. It lasts for 55 minutes, and has a 30 minute cooldown. So organized node wars have some what of a solution to the problem. But to clarify, you don't like how the change has affected your grinding?

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Posted

There is the guild skill flag of determination which creates a private respawn for the guild at the gm location. It lasts for 55 minutes, and has a 30 minute cooldown. So organized node wars have some what of a solution to the problem. But to clarify, you don't like how the change has affected your grinding?

Its quite annoying that there is no way to PvP for control of a location (this was one of the selling points my friends used to get me to play this game).  The concept that there are "top tier" locations that you have to work with friends and guild mates to hold down is rather interesting and exciting.  The removal of that feature, along with the fact that there is no longer any rush whatsoever when someone flags on you or vice versa is more than a little disappointing.

In fact, if someone flags on me - the only way I really win is to let them kill me.  If I win, they only lose 3k karma, if I die they lose 60k.  Basically, if I want to punish someone for trying to kill me, the best way is to let them do so...  My ego doesn't really allow for that, but the fact that is the logical option is depressing.

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Posted

How many polls so far ? how many  threads so far ?

Players have no problem griefing before because there is no delevel in the game. I can setup a toon for level 52 and grief you all day. I lose nothing and gain your time for it. So your con has no weight.

Truth is players want to be able to dominate areas to get items to sell to the AH to get cash for it.  There is nothing wrong in dominating the area. If you want to keep dominating a area you just going to have to paid for it at some point. 

you could have done that before but only few people would. now it happens all the time that you have someone ksing you and pking wont make him stop.

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Posted

you could have done that before but only few people would. now it happens all the time that you have someone ksing you and pking wont make him stop.

In the end you are saying instead of 1 player ksing you have 3 player ksing?  I guess you just going to have to go to war more or just out dps them which should not be hard at all because you outgear them yes? Changes are when the content update comes out you won't even be in this area anymore. Expect on some low geared toon so you can farm stuff to sell on the AH yes? 

Like I said before to some other player " The level progression curve is so low players will catch up pretty fast" 

This patch came thru is in the other versions of BDO and been there for sometime. Will the Pubs take this patch out who knows for sure. Will the Devs allow the Pubs to take the patch out  who knows. If going perma red does not affect players actions. These same players do whatever it takes to stop lowbies progression (like forming a blockade). These same players just killed the Karma System as it stands. I guess the Devs had to do something to keep players moving on in between content updates. 

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Posted

 

In the end you are saying instead of 1 player ksing you have 3 player ksing?  I guess you just going to have to go to war more or just out dps them which should not be hard at all because you outgear them yes? Changes are when the content update comes out you won't even be in this area anymore. Expect on some low geared toon so you can farm stuff to sell on the AH yes? 

Like I said before to some other player " The level progression curve is so low players will catch up pretty fast" 

This patch came thru is in the other versions of BDO and been there for sometime. Will the Pubs take this patch out who knows for sure. Will the Devs allow the Pubs to take the patch out  who knows. If going perma red does not affect players actions. These same players do whatever it takes to stop lowbies progression (like forming a blockade). These same players just killed the Karma System as it stands. I guess the Devs had to do something to keep players moving on in between content updates. 

You sure you're actually a Sinister Swarm member?

I was under the impression they were a hardcore guild..........

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Posted

You sure you're actually a Sinister Swarm member?

I was under the impression they were a hardcore guild..........

lol don't change the subject 

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Posted

lol don't change the subject 

Haven't you noticed more guildless running around? Thereby preventing retaliation via war?

And thereby giving people reason to avoid joining a guild in a game that's heavily dependent on guilds?

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Posted (edited)

I voted yes because I think there should be a penalty for PK death but in fact I don't think 1% exp loss is a good thing. I've seen people toss around the idea that after PK death ressing on node will make you lose 1% exp, and ressing in town will make you lose nothing. In my opinion that's the best solution and a middle ground to the problems from both sides and what Daum should implement asap.

Edited by Kazx

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Posted

I voted yes because I think there should be a penalty for PK death but in fact I don't think 1% exp loss is a good thing. I've seen people toss around the idea that after PK death ressing on node will make you lose 1% exo, and ressing in town will make you lose nothing. In my opinion that's the best solution and a middle ground to the problems from both sides and what Daum should implement asap.

Agreed.

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Posted

Haven't you noticed more guildless running around? Thereby preventing retaliation via war?

And thereby giving people reason to avoid joining a guild in a game that's heavily dependent on guilds?

Nope not as I seen just like in any other game. BDO is at like the 60 day mark right. This is the point when players really think hard about continuing the game. This is also the time when  small guild that become larger guild think about maintaining a guild. Management of a guild is hard work by far and leaders and officers of those guilds have to think is it worth it in the end. Because Leader and officers of a guild will spend more time in management than playing the game. Then you have those players in smaller guilds that went poof with a few that stayed behind guildless. These low level players and other low leveled players have gotten to the level where you are grinding, so you see more of them.

In short it been like 60 days since start and what you see is normal for any game.  

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Posted

Nope not as I seen just like in any other game. BDO is at like the 60 day mark right. This is the point when players really think hard about continuing the game. This is also the time when  small guild that become larger guild think about maintaining a guild. Management of a guild is hard work by far and leaders and officers of those guilds have to think is it worth it in the end. Because Leader and officers of a guild will spend more time in management than playing the game. Then you have those players in smaller guilds that went poof with a few that stayed behind guildless. These low level players and other low leveled players have gotten to the level where you are grinding, so you see more of them.

In short it been like 60 days since start and what you see is normal for any game.  

Yea, I know

In fact, in a little bit I get to channel hop until I find a Large or Extra Large boss for my guild to do Wednesday (one of three), as well as remind my guys all of the extra large missions will pay off in the end (seriously kickass to have people who don't complain about missions), which will probably involve me crafting a shit ton of boats for them to buy because they've put their contribution elsewhere.

And then there are the lowbies I need to help boost to 55. Contracts to consider giving a raise to. Cross reference the vacation list with in game roster - see who has simply poofed, if it would be healthier for the guild to drop them. Speak with other Leaders, soothe bruised egos, scold, etc.

Oh, and our forum recruitment ad needs to be redone, on top of finalizing the guild logo (we changed it after Support fell for our little joke - and they were pretty mad lol)

And no, I don't see more people at Sausan's or Pirates than I did when Mediah released. I see less. Way less.

I daresay it'd be accurate to say I've personally met at least 300 players who have stopped playing. That day I deleted my party record was downright depressing.

 

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Posted

Therefore the guildless is just a normal thing that happens in every game.

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Posted

26 players voted "yes", you must change it immediately!!!

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Posted (edited)

It's really sad to see this kind of changes like no exp loss with positive karma, and thats really sad that you first buy the game because you like the rules and after they change them. I see no point even leveling now, who needs my high level now? What should i do with my high level now? With this patch they could delete that falg button because there is no point in it anymore. Good solution would be if they made an NPC where you can refil your lost exp for big amount of silver like one million, that would help weaker player to change spot with no exp loss instead of repeatedly returns like how it is right now.

Edited by KungFuMasta

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Posted

It's really sad to see this kind of changes like no exp loss with positive karma, and thats really sad that you first buy the game because you like the rules and after they change them. I see no point even leveling now, who needs my high level now? What should i do with my high level now? With this patch they could delete that falg button because there is no point in it anymore. Good solution would be if they made an NPC where you can refil your lost exp for big amount of silver like one million, that would help weaker player to change spot with no exp loss instead of repeatedly returns like how it is right now.

Its Aion system.

Aion has best World PvP system.

But they wouldn't do that. Because its too simple and EVERYTHING in BDO has to be complicated.

 

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Posted

Its Aion system.

Aion has best World PvP system.

But they wouldn't do that. Because its too simple and EVERYTHING in BDO has to be complicated.

 

I agree, Aion's PvP system was great until they completely butchered rifting.
But I guess they also fixed some stuff with ground abyss.

The main problem is that you can't compare Aion to BDO.
Aion has 2 opposing factions which are by design fighting each other. The enemy faction is able to be attacked by default and the game actively encourages you to do so with the rewards it gives (AP, Quests, etc)
In BDO, PK is an option that's freely available for everyone to use, with some drawbacks (Karma).

Now please, don't get me wrong. I'm a PvP/GvG player with heart and soul. I will also kill everyone who wants to make a claim to my farm spot or get killed in the process.
But if you are given the choice to do so instead of the system determining "thiz iz enemy, keel eet", the carebears will never get that PK is a viable option to use for claiming and protecting resources, farm and other stuff. They just see a big, bad meanie who took all the candy for himself, because the current generation of MMO players are soft and weak.

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Posted

I agree, Aion's PvP system was great until they completely butchered rifting.But I guess they also fixed some stuff with ground abyss.

The main problem is that you can't compare Aion to BDO.
Aion has 2 opposing factions which are by design fighting each other. The enemy faction is able to be attacked by default and the game actively encourages you to do so with the rewards it gives (AP, Quests, etc)
In BDO, PK is an option that's freely available for everyone to use, with some drawbacks (Karma).

Now please, don't get me wrong. I'm a PvP/GvG player with heart and soul. I will also kill everyone who wants to make a claim to my farm spot or get killed in the process.
But if you are given the choice to do so instead of the system determining "thiz iz enemy, keel eet", the carebears will never get that PK is a viable option to use for claiming and protecting resources, farm and other stuff. They just see a big, bad meanie who took all the candy for himself, because the current generation of MMO players are soft and weak.

Your right with faction and Aion. Game was DESIGN for PvP its why Aion is a PvP game and BDO a PvE game.

I guess we could not compare those 2 games BUT they clearly have lot to learn from it.

It is just sad because , BDO Really have the potential to be a great PvP game Ruined by its own system.

I used to think BEST GRIND spot will be hold by BEST PvPer

I guess i was wrong, I played the wrong game , I got into it , BUT the game gave me more rage than fun it is why i quitted 1 week ago.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Your right with faction and Aion. Game was DESIGN for PvP its why Aion is a PvP game and BDO a PvE game.

I guess we could not compare those 2 games BUT they clearly have lot to learn from it.

It is just sad because , BDO Really have the potential to be a great PvP game Ruined by its own system.

I used to think BEST GRIND spot will be hold by BEST PvPer

I guess i was wrong, I played the wrong game , I got into it , BUT the game gave me more rage than fun it is why i quitted 1 week ago.

 

 

You are entirely allowed to express discontent, but the reason I made this thread was because there are constructive ways to express disagreement in a conversation. Using words in all caps, and multiple unexplained assertions is not the way to go. This is all I learned from reading your post.

  • There is a game called Aion that was designed for PvP
  • It has a two faction system.
  • You think that BDO is a PvE game
  • You thought best grind spot would go to best pvper.

I will try to respond to these concerns.

  • Please explain why you think BDO is a PvE game. And limit the amount of unexplained opinions you put into the discussion.
  • Best pvper is a baiting phrase. But I will say even if you are the best pvper, reducing competition reduces challenge. Reducing the impact of level on a PvP encounter proportionally increases the impact of skill.
Edited by Kentigem

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Posted

You are entirely allowed to express discontent, but the reason I made this thread was because there are constructive ways to express disagreement in a conversation. Using words in all caps, and multiple unexplained assertions is not the way to go. This is all I learned from reading your post.

  • There is a game called Aion that was designed for PvP
  • It has a two faction system.
  • You think that BDO is a PvE game
  • You thought best grind spot would go to best pvper.

I will try to respond to these concerns.

  • Please explain why you think BDO is a PvE game. And limit the amount of unexplained opinions you put into the discussion.
  • Best pvper is a baiting phrase. But I will say even if you are the best pvper, reducing competition reduces challenge. Reducing the impact of level on a PvP encounter proportionally increases the impact of skill.

Simple.

Why BDO is a PvE game with PvP content.

1st There is no PvP gear in the game.

2st There is no PvP quest in the world like killing 10 players in this area (Battleground doesn't count its not world pvp).

3st Karma System is punitive. it is not a reward. PvP was implanted as an option not as the main aspect of the game

4st Even if you kill 300 players a day there is no tab no option no ranking nothing concerning PvP and your kills ( I am at 71k PK in aion because there is an option showing you your pvp status).

5st No Low level PvP , Learning your class . learning to pvp with your class low level , is not an option in BDO.

6st You cant even trow a duel to a friend or a guild member while you wait after other people.

7st I can Travel ALL CHANNEL and NEVER get attacked which make it a PvE Game.

8st You never feel in danger, specially with new patch , because PvP is no where.

9st Players you kill , come back since they lost nothing , no point of doing PvP ,

10st No arena , nothing competitive in the game for PvP ,

11st if you run outlaw , because it is why you play to pvp , forget world boss , forget the best loot , and be ready to get roll by PvE player more geared than you are.

12st Most of PvP game have a system to level up by doing PvP , not the case in BDO

I can proceed more reason all day long.

 

BDO Is a PvE Hardcore Game with the option of doing PvP but clearly it is not the MAIN FOCUS of the game like Aion , Lineage , Daoc and UO.

I spent my time , my money , doing Stuff i don't like ( PvE ) in BDO for a competitive PvP until I realized it is the wrong game.

 

 

 

 

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Posted

Simple.

Why BDO is a PvE game with PvP content.

1st There is no PvP gear in the game.

2st There is no PvP quest in the world like killing 10 players in this area (Battleground doesn't count its not world pvp).

3st Karma System is punitive. it is not a reward. PvP was implanted as an option not as the main aspect of the game

4st Even if you kill 300 players a day there is no tab no option no ranking nothing concerning PvP and your kills ( I am at 71k PK in aion because there is an option showing you your pvp status).

5st No Low level PvP , Learning your class . learning to pvp with your class low level , is not an option in BDO.

6st You cant even trow a duel to a friend or a guild member while you wait after other people.

7st I can Travel ALL CHANNEL and NEVER get attacked which make it a PvE Game.

8st You never feel in danger, specially with new patch , because PvP is no where.

9st Players you kill , come back since they lost nothing , no point of doing PvP ,

10st No arena , nothing competitive in the game for PvP ,

11st if you run outlaw , because it is why you play to pvp , forget world boss , forget the best loot , and be ready to get roll by PvE player more geared than you are.

12st Most of PvP game have a system to level up by doing PvP , not the case in BDO

I can proceed more reason all day long.

 

BDO Is a PvE Hardcore Game with the option of doing PvP but clearly it is not the MAIN FOCUS of the game like Aion , Lineage , Daoc and UO.

I spent my time , my money , doing Stuff i don't like ( PvE ) in BDO for a competitive PvP until I realized it is the wrong game.

 

 

 

 

Not everything is black or white. It does not have to be a PvE or a PvP game. In addition, the main PvP aspects of the game, node wars and castle siege, are not in the game yet. I understand your frustration though. But as BDO is not subscription based I encourage you to take a break if you want, and return when those key PvP modes are added to the game.

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Posted (edited)

Not everything is black or white. It does not have to be a PvE or a PvP game. In addition, the main PvP aspects of the game, node wars and castle siege, are not in the game yet. I understand your frustration though. But as BDO is not subscription based I encourage you to take a break if you want, and return when those key PvP modes are added to the game.

it is what i do.

I don't play it anymore i just keep reading forums and patch notes.

It doesn't change Best PvP players will be PvE whore and not those with a real PvP experience, experience has nothing to do in BDO , PvE does, your level and your +20.

All i am saying its IMPOSSIBLE to be RED and make a good progression. The game Freeze and Stop. no World boss. No gear GG

I'm just being honest , BDO is original , its new , it has TONS of great aspect to be played. I am not saying its a bad MMO. Its officially one of the best mmo i ever played and i played more than 20 at max level or end game.

When you see others MMO , yes they focus on something. It is why there is PvP server and PvE server off every mmo.

 

For instance Wow :

WoW community result from their poll 75% of their players play for PvE and 25% play for PvP

Simple what they did.

75% of the money goes to PvE Content

25% of the money goes to PvP content

Making WoW a PvE game with PvP content

same with BDO

Daoc, UO , EVE online , AoC , Aion , and i might forget others, are MMO with more money into PvP content.

 

I was Hoping BDO would have been 75% PvP 25% PvE but clearly all the pearl you are buying is going into PvE content.

 

Edited by Nahilu

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