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RNG too brutal for game to ever be popular

261 posts in this topic

Posted

I basically quit this game weeks ago due to the RNG hell that is accessory upgrading. I'd rather not play than put up with a system designed that way. It's a shame because the game could've been so great.

 

i come back just to watch this game crash and burn. It's like a train wreck in slow motion - super terrible thing happening but I just can't look away.

quit aswel just checking the forums with popcorns, slightly hoping theyll westernize and fix RNG and endless grind

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Posted

That was my point though, why I find it a bit funny here. SWTOR's RNG was annoying, but not punishing. It was much more lenient than BDO's and yet players still hated it enough that BioWare was forced to adjust it to greatly decrease the RNG rather quickly after launching. The response to BDO's much harsher RNG should have been anticipated (at least in the Western launch). That's why I was saying it's as if Pearl Abyss ignores the past lessons MMO's have learned.

I sincerely believe that this game has the potential to be amazing, but it feels like the developers are too stuck on a handful of design decisions that wind up holding the whole game back. I would love to see them focus more on sandbox elements and give grind/RNG a rest.

Gotcha, I won't disagree, but your point really goes to a much larger conversation with developers. I personally believe that alot of the games out and coming out are completely missing the mark, and it is because developers are misinterpreting signals in the market. Instead of looking at the context for why games that came before them fail, or even dissecting feedback, such as, "we want open world", it is taken at surface or face value. I can't tell you how many times I've heard over the years, "we want open world", for example, yet I've yet to see it go over well and long term for a substantial, key being substantial, portion of the market. In theory, the market wants it, but in practice, it is not something that the market seems to handle well. ..I'm referring to open world in a broad since, but there in lies part of it as well. The market may say "we want open world", but ok, define what you mean by "open world" please. ...ask 5 people, and you are likely to get 5 different answers. ...again, just a singular example. ..little off track I know...but it is hump day and I have just a few minutes left to my day. :-)

The result is unfair. The mechanic is terrible.

He has a legitimate complaint because the terrible mechanic results in wildly differing results that arbitrarily make winners and losers without consideration to contributions such as time played, effort expended, or skill displayed.

As we have witnessed from a great deal of comments, many people have quit or are in the process of quitting due to this unpredictable and harshly punishing aspect of the game. As a player (I do assume you are a player), I would assume that you would care that a poorly implemented aspect of the game is driving away players and limiting the potential and longevity of BDO.

Don't know that I would call it unfair. ...mainly out of a personal quirk...I wince every time I hear the word. Life isn't fair, so why expect a game that is supposed to be immersive to be fair.  ...however, the mechanic is bad, at least for western markets. ...with that I can agree. 

Ultimately, as I've said, I like the game and will continue playing. Can kiss my toe if you think I'm going to spend time, money, resources, or my own frustrations on RNG for accessories. I honestly don't get why they weren't designed similar to armor or weapons. ...destroy the item being used to enhance, but not the item you are trying to enhance...just take away from the durability. ...least something like that is how it should be. As I've said though, the way Korean games tend to present or build in their RNG mechanics is the reason why I rarely play one seriously, or plan to play it long term. I like the game, Daum, and overall think PA does a good job. Unfortunately, BDO isn't in my long term plans. Obviously is in my short term though. ..but I do limit my spend because of no long term plans though.

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Posted

I have to agree as I've seen a lot of people quit because of RNG and constant delays in content.. but RNG seems to be the hard hitter. I think its all still salvageable and they can do very well with this game, the greed has to die and RNG has to tone down for that to happen though, and I don't know if I see that happening, sadly. :\

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Posted

Korean rng grinder has rng and grind.

You really shouldn't hold your breath expecting that to change.

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Posted

how can you defend a system like this? Srsly i started a new char just because i made more silver while lvling than grinding in endgame while other had constan drops. So to go further i lvl a musa too 54 by just grinding hexe and abandon monastery and guess what? While lvling i had drops i didnt know thhey drop there i got now over 12 MoS and so much witchearrings i cant count them anymore. So why am i whining?? This systems has almost half if my guild drive away and i cant play my main anymore. My main warrior is not even slower in grinding i also get significant less drops, 2 witchearrings so far nothing else even the common drops are far less than with my musa ( for example 3 weapon stones and 1 ancient shard in 8 hours of grinding over 2 days) and he is also lvl 54 and did the exact same rhings like i did with my musa. I dont believe its just rng its the same with defferent hp numbers every stat is random and the "shown" stats like luck or attack speeds are modifiers for hidden stats we dont know and this is realky gamebreaking i have no motivation to play my main just to lvl up and get a view skillpoints so in oder to progress i have to play 2 characters and the fun fact all professions ive done are on my warrior (artisan 2 alchemy,gathering prof 8, processing prof 7) and just gets stopped because when i farm with my musa i dont get enough energy per day...and thats more than a bad gamedesign 

Your math is rng in this game you can roll a warrior which has more INT than a common witch and we dont know it if you want too see it your self re awake a skill of your choice to get 10% attack speed its more than that it doubels almost the animation, on top of that remove 5 ap accessoirs and get a buff (alchemy stone also a gamebreaking item) with all ap + 5 and test your dmg, there are base stats and modifiers and the base stats are rng you cant do anything against it just reroll and lvl again but i spend almost 100 bucks on my warri so i wont do this 

How? Well very simple I try to look at it from different viewpoints.

^ That does not belong here.

3.0

 

I'm not familiar with, I at least think it is one, twitch memes so here have a cute girl.

300px-User_Hinaomi_Profile.thumb.jpg.a86

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Posted

If there are no hidden bonuses the result is random. What you probably would like to see is a "TheWorstLuck" mechanic where you will have some kind of save so you won't be unlucky for eternity. But this would also devalue the items achieved by this. 

Not at all. I have far less issue with the RNG itself than I do with the punitive way in which it is implemented in upgrading accessories. RNG is present in every MMO that I have played, but these MMOs tended to NOT destroy the item I was trying to upgrade upon failure. Some wasted gold/silver, yes. Some wasted gems that gave +x% to crafting, yes. Those were losses that were relatively minor and easy to recover.

Keep the RNG as-is, but greatly reduce the costs of failure. It is that high cost that transforms simple frustration into people walking away from the game.

 

I think it is an old mill be leaving on other random things to so you would need to implement some kind of save into every rng mechanic in the game which would be a lot effort. I highly doubt there will be changes. 

The other RNG mechanics are not nearly as punishing as this specific system, so no.

 

 

Don't know that I would call it unfair. ...mainly out of a personal quirk...I wince every time I hear the word. Life isn't fair, so why expect a game that is supposed to be immersive to be fair.  ...however, the mechanic is bad, at least for western markets. ...with that I can agree.

Life isn't fair, nor do I expect it to be. However, I have different expectations from a game that I shell out my hard-earned cash to attain. 

The Western market does not enjoy punitive RNG mechanics, and a lot of people have regretfully left due to this one terribly-implemented feature of the game. I think Daum would benefit greatly from acknowledging this and adjusting the systems to be less punitive. I'm glad we agree on that, now we can only hope that Daum gets its act together.

Ultimately, as I've said, I like the game and will continue playing. Can kiss my toe if you think I'm going to spend time, money, resources, or my own frustrations on RNG for accessories. I honestly don't get why they weren't designed similar to armor or weapons. ...destroy the item being used to enhance, but not the item you are trying to enhance...just take away from the durability. ...least something like that is how it should be. As I've said though, the way Korean games tend to present or build in their RNG mechanics is the reason why I rarely play one seriously, or plan to play it long term. I like the game, Daum, and overall think PA does a good job. Unfortunately, BDO isn't in my long term plans. Obviously is in my short term though. ..but I do limit my spend because of no long term plans though.

I'm in pretty much the same boat. My plans to perhaps make this my next MMO have been seriously downgraded to plans to have a bit of fun exploring BDO during the summer while continuing to stick to Rift for PvP. A shame, really, given the potential this game had.

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Posted (edited)

I had my greatest RNG day yesterday so far.

Bought ancient relics crystals to get durability back for my +10 bheg gloves. (40 durability)

After spending 25 kk and 90 minutes of mindlessly killing this boss I had 45 memory fragments to upgrade my gloves.

First I had of course problems getting unlucky so spend 20 kk more on stones to get to 25 failstacks. (not sure if this number is enough)

Then I tried 12 times to upgrade my bheg gloves without success.

Sitting on 37 failstacks I decided to upgrade my pri MoS and failed twice.

So..125kk lighter bheg gloves on 20 durability and 4 AP less. No MoS in market place, no money and feel slightly -----ed by the system.

Will focus on lifeskills will never again try duo or even tri on high price accessories and hate the game a little bit more, sadly.

Edited by Mr.Drown
error
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Posted (edited)

I had my greatest RNG day yesterday so far.

Bought ancient relics crystals to get durability back for my +10 bheg gloves. (40 durability)

After spending 25 kk and 90 minutes of mindlessly killing this boss I had 45 memory fragments to upgrade my gloves.

First I had of course problems getting unlucky so spend 20 kk more on stones to get to 25 failstacks. (not sure if this number is enough)

Then I tried 12 times to upgrade my bheg gloves without success.

Sitting on 37 failstacks I decided to upgrade my pri MoS and failed twice.

So..125kk lighter bheg gloves on 20 durability and 4 AP less. No MoS in market place, no money and feel slightly -----ed by the system.

Will focus on lifeskills will never again try duo or even tri on high price accessories and hate the game a little bit more, sadly.

You know what.

 

Succeeded DUO with 20+ fail stacks

- 5 times

Succeeded DUO with yolo 0-3 fail stacks

- 9 times

Also succeeded TRI twice in a row with 0 fail stacks and failed every TRI with 40+ stacks so far.

 

RNG is a biaatch.

 

 

Edited by Surrender

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Posted

Lucky you ;)

And the only explanation we get is...RNG.

For those defending RNG.

When I go in a casino and put my money on the table (let's say Roulette or I play the lottery) I can calculate my odds and I know what chance I get for putting my money on a number or black/red.

But in this game you have only rumors about how many fail stacks you should get without ever knowing how much you increase your odds and if it is worth it.

They should just add the percentage of success on every enchant and the amount of increase with a failstack!

Then I know my odds and if I'm willing to gamble.

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Posted

25 failstacks MOS pri
23 failstacks WE Pri
33 failstacks MOS duo
5 failstacks Gladiator DUO (yes 5, not 15 or 25 or 35 etc, but 5)

Yet to fail accesories enhancements all in all, i'd wish I had some more luck in actually getting items to drop though, THAT would be fantastic, anyone wanna trade lucks? :P

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Posted

I play this game super casually to avoid caring about RNG or gear. It is a shame because when I decided I didn't want that frustration in my life I choose to cross PVP off my list of things to do in BDO. I could still do it but competing against peeps with super awesome gear, coupled with way more time to get skilled etc etc...you get the point I hope. So now it's log on a few times a week to grind some mobs to enjoy what is a very cool combat system, do some life skills in a mildly fun but somewhat pointless system and enjoy the wonderful view/characters/etc the world builders have built. 

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Posted

RNG is never a rewarding experience even if you get lucky. You simply got lucky. I hate & never go to Las Vegas although I live very close to it.

  1. This entire thread once again reminds me how EVE Online is the best MMO and always will be. The manufacturing process is convoluted but rewarding because....
  2. When you PvP you risk losing almost all your equipment, but....
  3. You can make enough money that you can always resupply from the very interesting and functioning player market, which...
  4. Makes the convoluted player driven economy very rewarding....

That is summing EVE up very simply, that game has huge layers to it. Then again it's been out for 14+(?) years with continuous development that hasn't really slowed down since the start.

However, any game that relies on only one way to sink time (see what I did there) will always burn out a large portion of the player base leaving only the small population that is willing to accept the game for what it is. MMO's always need to diversify what they have to offer. You can see that attempt here. They need to offer other things than just RNG.

Well I'll check out this game, will most likely be the usual 6 months. I'm always hoping for a Fantasy MMO that is a cross between EVE and Wurm Online. Still waiting!

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Posted

Lol yesterday I killed my 1st Mutant Tree of the day and got a Tree Spirit Belt. No knowledge, but my node was lvl 5 and I had 5 Luck.

Meanwhile, I failed 2x Pri Witch Earrings with 25+ stacks. RNG is a biatch :D

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Posted

I tried to upgrade my dagger from +14 to +15. This was the result:

DtHw4Gz.png

I'm now saving those stacks for something else :|

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Posted (edited)

Lost 100 million worth of items going for more duo yesterday. Is what it is, we know it's a low probability even though exact percentage is not provided. Will grind for 3-4 days to replenish and try again (can't no life) or maybe stack more hard/sharps for 16+.

Even though rng can be rough I like that you have to be smart in allocating your silver. Decisions carry more weight because of the grind and rng. Some like it, many don't. Probably depends a lot on how you view the game; If you see it in a long or short term sense. A majority of people that want that quick big reward will likely not have a good time in BDO.

Edited by Tyrant Castiel
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Posted

We have 2 types of systems created for MMOs.

1 is RNG
2 is Crafting

Why not give us both?
Enhance the system with Crafting and nodes to allow us to OE items with workers and craft top gear such as MOS and Witch Earrings. Creating a system where people aren't completely screwed over. 

Thoughts?

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Posted

The sooner people realize the cash shop is integrated with the RNG bullshit, the better. Especially horses. 

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Posted

I personally think the game could be a bit less punishing in terms of RNG. I'm not really a fan of playing casino everytime i want to progress in something.

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Posted

The sooner people realize the cash shop is integrated with the RNG bullshit, the better. Especially horses. 

//joke

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Posted (edited)

I exploded my TET on 35 fail stacks. 

 

PEN dreams

Edited by Dremlock

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Posted

Many online games these days have a lot of AFK progression mechanics. Eve online has offline skill training, Star trek online has duty officer assignments, admiralty missions, Research and development assignments that can be completed while AFK or offline. 

If BDO did not have these kinds of AFK progression mechanics, I would not play the game as I don't even have 2 hours a night to grind mindlessly, or gather materials for 8 hours straight. 

Having 42 workers gather materials for me and craft items for me is a blessing for me, as I only have to AFK craft beer to feed them everyday. 

Those activities are all ok in a game because you are still playing the game. What I dont like is the horse training, fishing, auto-pathing and so on. Workers and such is a brilliant idea because it fits in and makes a feudal system realistic. I think fishing, training and everything else that is personal to your hero should be things you do manually, not automatically.

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Posted

Say hi to ArcheAge trololololololo

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Posted (edited)

Newsflash: YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSE TO HAVE PEN EVERYTHING

This isn't a game where you actually get max gear. The RNG system is there so that you never truly have max BiS gear.

Got all DUO? Go for TRIs. Oh, you got your TRIs,? Ok now go for TETs. Its the carrot that makes it feel like you've never really finished with your gear.

How sad are games when you're finished with gear and character progression within the first few weeks? At least with a RNG system, as brutal as they can be at times, you're always going to be able to improve your gear because it is virtually impossible to max everything in this game.

 

Edited by legendary_item

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Posted

Newsflash: YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSE TO HAVE PEN EVERYTHING

This isn't a game where you actually get max gear. The RNG system is there so that you never truly have max BiS gear.

Got all DUO? Go for TRIs. Oh, you got your TRIs,? Ok now go for TETs. Its the carrot that makes it feel like you've never really finished with your gear.

How sad are games when you're finished with gear and character progression within the first few weeks? At least with a RNG system, as brutal as they can be at times, you're always going to be able to improve your gear because it is virtually impossible to max everything in this game.

 

Games are only sad when you reach max gear when they are not fun in the first place. A genuinely fun game will remain fun regardless of whether you maxed your progression or not. This is teh issue with the skinner box world we live in.

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Posted

 

 

This... This is a painfully ignorant statement.

I rarely post in forums, I mostly just read them, but I HIGHLY agree with the OP's statement. The RNG in this game goes beyond the healthy level of RNG in an MMO.

I am not against investing time into an MMO. Hell, I feel that an MMO that doesn't require hundreds of hours, if not thousands, is doing something wrong. But if one person can invest 15 minutes to achieve what another person may spend 40+ hours on, there is a MAJOR flaw in the system. An MMO, especially with a major PvP element (which we have yet to see, but soon will) needs to have balance in time invested for endgame content.

There is a point in which RNG is useful, and even at some points steep RNG. But for something as important as gear progression, there should absolutely be preventative measures to limit the insane differences in the player progression to time invested ratio; and I'm not -----ing talking about failstacks. That's a joke.

It goes beyond just upsetting a few players. In fact, RNG is a major contributor to why so many people feel this game is a one-player MMO. Think about it - Tom and Harry are grinding gear together for a few days. After the same time invested, playing side by side, Tom is ages beyond Harry in terms of progression and is ready to move on to the next stage of player progression... Harry gets stuck trying to make new friends at his stage of the game, now. With such steep RNG, it's hard for players to stick to doing anything together as far as game progression goes, other than leveling.

You know why so many Korean games flop in the western market? RNG and grindfest. You have no idea how many people I've showed this game to in order to try to bring new players to the game. And I'm always greeted with the same statement - "Wow, this game looks amazing". Followed by the same question - "Is it just another Korean RNG grindfest"? To which I have to answer honestly... "Yes, yes it is".

I love BDO, and I will continue to play until it's dead. But, unfortunately, if changes aren't made, this game will last no longer than any of the other Korean MMOs in the western market.

Ok ok, if we all get max gear in 3 months, what will hold us to stay another year without getting bored? The end game gear is supposed to be rare and only a few can have it. If your RNG luck sux, farm silver and buy from others. 

 

End game gear is supposed to be rare and only a few have it because it should be an investment that only a few are willing to put work into, not because of luck. This is also an ignorant statement - no offense intended. I hate WoW, but it is a prime example of how a mid-grade RNG progression system (in the case of PvE) and a strictly, even-grounds time investment progression system (PvP gear) can build and keep a healthy playerbase for over a decade. I'd love to see that for BDO, but not at the rate going.

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