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[resolved] PVP unlock quest

405 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I never said it wasn't taken into consideration and I said PA wasn't the party unwilling to do the change when weighing the cost.
There is a process for everything, quotas for everything and in every corporate environment there is at least one person who really does nothing else but micromanage everyone else's time. No change gets done without cost and even if the cost is marginal to actually implement the code there is a cost to put that on a worker's queue and then testing to make sure the build is actually viable.

It's not like someone just steps into a room and flicks a switch; it goes through multiple approval processes before getting the thumbs up and you've made a lot of assumptions about how simple it is to revert code in a unique client on a proprietary engine based on your experiences as an
amateur modder for single player games using an engine specifically designed to be easy to work on so it can be sold to game designers.
I don't know much about the coding of the game itself, but I know heaps about corporate structures and how stupidly redundant things that should be simple tend to get.

Sure, Its still doesnt make sense considering somes stuff they were able to pull out, but strangely, for that precise point kakao EU are dragging their feet to "act" despite quite many intervertion from the staff.

I mean thoses guys set the no more xp loss without warning and made rage a large part of thoses "pvper" But this... no... Despite "approval" from kr, its still hardly make sense tho.

 

About the assumptions , well that's not only one game tho, and i still read stuff here and there when i can.

I would indeed love to have a answer from someone from PA to know exactly how its "set"..

Also, considering thoses guys build everything from the ground they certainly more than master their topic. Unless they are dumb as f# and do like crytek who compartmentalize so much everything that most employee cant even access to many part of the engine code 9_9 its still very different from game code, but well xD

 

anyway.

Edited by woots

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Posted

Sure, Its still doesnt make sense considering somes stuff they were able to pull out, but strangely, for that precise point kakao EU are dragging their feet to "act" despite quite many intervertion from the staff.

I mean thoses guys set the no more xp loss without warning and made rage a large part of thoses "pvper" But this... no... Despite "approval" from kr

 

About the assumptions , well that's not only one game tho, and i still read stuff here and there when i can.

I would indeed love to have a answer from someone from PA to know exactly how its "set"..

Also, considering thoses guys build everything from the ground they certainly more than master their topic. Unless they are dumb as f# and do like crytek who compartmentalize so much everything that most employee cant even access to many part of the engine code 9_9 so turn many things over complicated for nothing.

 

anyway.

I don't really think it's EU that's dragging their feet, I firmly believe Kakao EU is mostly powerless to do anything and Kakao proper is the ones doing this stuff and yanking EU's chain.

I don't think EU even really had a heads up that the xp loss removal was even coming to the client, I think PA has been in close communication with Kakao but Kakao is more focused on their local version and just don't really give EU much heads up.... but that's all anecdotal assumption on my part and I admit that.

Proprietary engines tend to be the product of a team of people doing different parts of the same work and considering how f**king wacky BDO's engine behaves I would wager it's not streamlined to be easy to work on otherwise a lot of these transitions that have been extremely rocky would have been much smoother.

Look at how problematic even rolling out war was and this is the 4th server to have it implemented and it had all kinds of delays and problems... Same thing with awakenings, it's obviously not a simple thing to just port over despite the code largely being there but this time they chose to roll it out slowly instead of just yoloing like so many other changes that blew up.

If the final product is any indication I really doubt BDO's engine is streamlined and smooth.

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Posted (edited)


Proprietary engines tend to be the product of a team of people doing different parts of the same work and considering how f**king wacky BDO's engine behaves I would wager it's not streamlined to be easy to work on otherwise a lot of these transitions that have been extremely rocky would have been much smoother.

Look at how problematic even rolling out war was and this is the 4th server to have it implemented and it had all kinds of delays and problems... Same thing with awakenings, it's obviously not a simple thing to just port over despite the code largely being there but this time they chose to roll it out slowly instead of just yoloing like so many other changes that blew up.

If the final product is any indication I really doubt BDO's engine is streamlined and smooth.

I dont know the war stuff issue since i never gave a sh#t about pvp here, but the delay and so is most likely because server issue ( my guess ). its very hard for such action online to live well in the west, even more in the US because its a very large territory to cover, and even more with a true open world. So = ping issues, so delay.

While its perfectly fine for east because way smaller territory so they can without much issue not bother with all ping compensation.. or whatever more adapted netwrok ( if its really possible ).. So they dont need to bother too much. ( someone with a better knowledge about that part could certainly provide well detailed explanation )

BnS is also a perfect exemple of that ( even if NCsoft server look to be just as sh#tty as amateur server tho ) Kr play with insane low ping, while in the west its so sh#tty than you most of the time cant even play correctly.

 

Not saying, from what i've read i dont remember where. Because owpvp, the server have to run some heavy work because it check every player attack deal / recieved to determine if you hit a player or a mob to right away enable the necessary rules..

 

Network not adapted for the west + heavy server work, you necessary end up with delay issues depending of the situation.

 

As for the engine itself, beside the lod pop issue, that engine is pretty awesome tho ( even the optimization is pretty decent, clearly not the best, but still pretty fine ), one of the best out there, especialy with a such insane view distance, except GTA5 rage engine, there is no single engine providing such thing.

( this lack of good lod management is also a reason why you have so much fps drop in town with many players, they didnt bothered and your computer eat all high poly character model at the same time... xD )

+ lod poping issue could certainly be corrected if they really wanted to, but it requier quite many work tho, creating many lod variation of the same prop.. is not for anyone. They just didnt bothered too much...

Or creating a automatization of that process like the CE is supposed to have.. not sure since i gave up CE a while ago. 

No idea if the rage engine have such thing, cose GTA5 provide the smoother lod transition i ever sawn but well, its not the same team, nor same budget, nor an engine used and improoved since 2006...

 

to resume, seriously, the BDO engine still is a blast despite somes obvious flaw. ( oh yeah you also have the desync while grab, and this, yeah its a BDO engine issue, but dont remember exactly why )

Edited by woots

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Posted (edited)

It made them money when they changed it because a lot of people clamored for it and it boosted sales both by virtue of appealing to their audience and by virtue of appearing to listen to the community.

Of course you don't know that.    It's just as likely that making it lv 45 turned off a lot of players and reduced sales.

Cool story bro, but that's all it is ... more story telling. :)

 

As for that second bit... So you think PA offering to make changes somehow negates that Kakao EU can't make changes to the game? lol... k. You think Kakao EU makes calls about what is or isn't allowed in our version or the parent company Kakao? You know, the Kakao EU that cancels community Q&A events for Korean holidays... that one.

 

If you learn to read before making mindless replies, I wouldn't have to explain this to you. You claim  that "Kakao EU is pretty much powerless to change it even if they pushed for it".   However, they contacted PA about the issue and PA offered to change the pvp lvl back to lvl 50.   So obviously they are not powerless to get things changed.  Like I said, PA already offered a solution.  The hold up is not with PA, but with Kakao EU to give them (PA) the go ahead for the change. 

 

So much for "story telling"

Your continued story telling only confirms my original statement that you're just storytelling.  :)

 

Edited by CaptainCrunch
Removed an unnecessary comment ...

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Posted

 

.You claim  that "Kakao EU is pretty much powerless to change it even if they pushed for it".   However, they contacted PA about the issue and PA offered to change the pvp lvl back to lvl 50.   So obviously they are not powerless to get things changed.  Like I said, PA already offered a solution.  The hold up is not with PA, but with Kakao EU to give them (PA) the go ahead for the change.

 

^this.

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Posted (edited)

 

Of course you don't know that.    It's just as likely that making it lv 45 turned off a lot of players and reduced sales.

Considering they had a huge boost in sales after doing that there's more evidence to suggest what I said vs what you're saying is likely.

 

 

If you learn to read before making mindless replies, I wouldn't have to explain this to you. You claim  that "Kakao EU is pretty much powerless to change it even if they pushed for it".   However, they contacted PA about the issue and

PA offered to change the pvp lvl back to lvl 50.   So obviously they are not powerless to get things changed.  Like I said, PA already offered a solution.  The hold up is not with PA, but with Kakao EU to give them (PA) the go ahead for the change.

And if you learned to think critically about what you type before pressing enter what I said about you confirming what I said might make more sense.

Kakao EU reached out to PA and PA offered a solution.

Where is that solution again? Oh right... never happened. Lets do the math on that one... Kakao EU finds a solution + PA offers a solution = Kakao stops said solution

Hmmm... So again, you're supporting what I said in the first place. Kakao EU doesn't call the shots, Kakao does.


 

 

Your continued story telling only confirms my original statement that you're just storytelling.  :)

Yeah, it's not uncommon for people who suck at arguing to think affirming someone else's assertions made their counter argument stronger.

Edited by bakimono

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Posted (edited)

Yeah, and implementing awakenings is just as simple as flipping a switch since it's already in the game right?

I am sure that even you realize the difference between changing a "PvP opt in" quest from level 45 to 50 is a lot different than implementing awakenings for the twelve different classes in BDO.  The initial game play design for BDO included that "level 50 PvP opt in" quest, it did not include awakenings. Awakenings is something that was patched into the game in later phases of game design implementation.  The fact that the quest has not been changed and is still available at level 50 is a good indication that the reason it hasn't been changed, or done away with, is exactly because they eventually intend to change PvP to coincide with that "level 50 opt in" quest.  And all that would be required to be done at that point is to flick that "on" switch.  If you doubt that then I would like all to remember, and necro this thread, for when the "PvP opt in" quest is indeed changed to level 50 in the very near future.  This is not a question of "will it happen," but "when will it happen."  And the answer is soon, and easily with a flick of a switch on a single Wednesday morning maintenance period.  

Edited by CurlyBaby
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Posted

 If you doubt that then I would like all to remember, and necro this thread, for when the "PvP opt in" quest is indeed changed to level 50 in the very near future.  This is not a question of "will it happen," but "when will it happen."  And the answer is soon, and easily with a flick of a switch on a single Wednesday morning maintenance period.  

I'd love to be as positive as you but, after all this months of the issue being ignored and all the lies ("we feel we need a more meaningful tool than a poll", a "meaningful number requesting" and the like) I can't anymore :(

I really, really, REALLY hope you're right though!

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Posted

I am sure that even you realize the difference between changing a "PvP opt in" quest from level 45 to 50 is a lot different than implementing awakenings for the twelve different classes in BDO.  The initial game play design for BDO included that "level 50 PvP opt in" quest, it did not include awakenings. Awakenings is something that was patched into the game in later phases of game design implementation.  The fact that the quest has not been changed and is still available at level 50 is a good indication that the reason it hasn't been changed, or done away with, is exactly because they eventually intend to change PvP to coincide with that "level 50 opt in" quest.  And all that would be required to be done at that point is to flick that "on" switch.  If you doubt that then I would like all to remember, and necro this thread, for when the "PvP opt in" quest is indeed changed to level 50 in the very near future.  This is not a question of "will it happen," but "when will it happen."  And the answer is soon, and easily with a flick of a switch on a single Wednesday morning maintenance period.  

Of course it is... and you do understand that the bulk of the code for the awakenings are already in the game and there are ways to even glitch into animations for it right?

It's so easy to do, just a flick of a switch, yet they said they'd do it ~3 months ago... So again, I'm not so sure it's so simple.


the level 50 quest still being where it is really just indicates they didn't follow through with changing the level in the first place... Going on 7 months into the game and that switch didn't get flipped.

I wouldn't be surprised if they reverted it or made the level 50 quest level 45... My objection was people pretending like it's as simple as flipping a switch or changing a single value. If it was, it wouldn't take longer than implementing war.

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Posted (edited)

Of course it is... and you do understand that the bulk of the code for the awakenings are already in the game and there are ways to even glitch into animations for it right?
It's so easy to do, just a flick of a switch, yet they said they'd do it ~3 months ago... So again, I'm not so sure it's so simple.


the level 50 quest still being where it is really just indicates they didn't follow through with changing the level in the first place... Going on 7 months into the game and that switch didn't get flipped.

I wouldn't be surprised if they reverted it or made the level 50 quest level 45... My objection was people pretending like it's as simple as flipping a switch or changing a single value. If it was, it wouldn't take longer than implementing war.

Well, to be fair, awakenings require at least everything related to it to be translated and proofread (we know kakao eu does a bad job at it, like "palette" appearing as "pallet" for months in the character ui, but they still have to do that work), plus the patch we're on is not the exact one there is in KR, so that could lead to bugs for our version, plus we have desync and a lot of other problems kr doesn't have that could create problems with the skills... changing the level of a switch isn't even remotely comparable to implementing an awakening for our version :P

Edit: despite having the character I do most stuff on already past 45, I'd still be fine with having the quest moved to 45 - at least I wouldn't have to worry about all the other alts :)

Edited by Storm Crow

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Posted (edited)

Considering they had a huge boost in sales after doing that there's more evidence to suggest what I said vs what you're saying is likely.
 

proof ?

because i just totaly doubt it have something to do with that.

But more a general daum eu behavior beeing very reassuring with the community,  saying stuff like the want to create a real BDO west "custom" version ( so avoid p2w ), and even more starting the karma 2.0 thread, who was the THE most important concern for the players already knowing the game....

Considering their speech + karma2.0 thread it wasnt hard to start thinking they would really ACT. But we all know how that stuff turned out... It just look to have been some pre-sell bullshit.

 

The karma system already was heavyly disputed since kr CBT on the first BDO english fan site ( black-desert.com) , while the pvp lvl cap, nearly no one gave a sh#t about that, from all the time i've spend back then reading that forum

That's also because of that site ( fil with nearly only super-agressive-pro-mlg-wanna-be-pker-of-the-death ) PA team wrongly thought the western players was way more agressive players regarding pvp.

Edited by woots

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Posted

lol this argument is still going

you guys are bumping the thread a lot though 

so that's cool, thanks c:

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Posted (edited)

proof ?

http://www.statista.com/statistics/262376/accumulated-sales-for-all-games-on-the-kakao-game-platform/

http://www.kakaocorp.com/upload_resources/ir/event/ir_event_20160512062022.pdf

http://www.kakaocorp.com/en/pr/pressRelease_view?page=1&group=1&idx=8713

because i just totaly doubt it have something to do with that.

Comprehension, it's a thing you need.

"Considering they had a huge boost in sales after doing that there's more evidence to suggest what I said vs what you're saying is likely." 

 

Well, to be fair, awakenings require at least everything related to it to be translated and proofread (we know kakao eu does a bad job at it, like "palette" appearing as "pallet" for months in the character ui, but they still have to do that work), plus the patch we're on is not the exact one there is in KR, so that could lead to bugs for our version, plus we have desync and a lot of other problems kr doesn't have that could create problems with the skills... changing the level of a switch isn't even remotely comparable to implementing an awakening for our version :P

Edit: despite having the character I do most stuff on already past 45, I'd still be fine with having the quest moved to 45 - at least I wouldn't have to worry about all the other alts :)

It's not, but it was a response to someone saying it's as easy as flipping a switch. The code is already in the game, people have datamined it and you can glitch into some of the animations... they are likely cleaning up some of the end of it and bug squashing etc etc etc...

My point was not that they are the same amount of work but that changes aren't as simple as swapping a bit of code already in the client.

Also, if you had paid attention to my numerous posts on this thread, I have been a long time proponent of pvp level and quest parity. Making the pvp quest 45 is something I support, reverting the pvp level back to 50 is something I support.


 

lol this argument is still going

you guys are bumping the thread a lot though 

so that's cool, thanks c:

I don't mind passing out free bumps =)

 

 

Edited by bakimono
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Posted (edited)

 

Unless you have a real proof showing that you have players that bought the game BECAUSE of that pvp lvl cap change, that hypothesis is as good as saying aliens live among us.

Especialy, as i said, because of the general daum eu behavior so communication back then.

Edited by woots

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Posted (edited)

There were a few of you looking into that but nothing came out of it yet. The most honest answer I got so far you can read in this very thread - "It makes no sense". It sure makes no sense that I cant get my fishers, processors, farmers past 49 without getting spammed every time I sell a fish, pick a cucumber or make a plank. It is the worst and most annoying pointless spam I ever saw in any game.

I just wonder what was that promise about changes and what issues exactly are going to be addressed.

 

I love your forum picture by the way, beautiful character....as for your comment there will be changes made to the forums is what the promise is. As per PM Jouska, "We are working on a system to link forum accounts to game accounts which once complete will allow for more accurate forum polls, but until then a poll can not be counted as the most reliable source" and I am personally assuming until that change... there will not be a definitive change until we receive accurate votes. We are also working on bringing more of our GM's to better assist on the forums and report issues to our team. xD So you will be seeing much more from me. <3

Just a lil cheer up for you (and all the staff) it must be painfull sometimes to get the hate from the forumers while you're doing a great job. Be sure that some of us realize all the work you are doing and that a lot of the problems are not really on your side.

Thank you very much for your kind comments and understanding. :x You guys are the best!

We got exactly that reply form other CM´s every few Month since Release, nothing ever was done beside that.

Guess you understand why i am still incredulous.

Completely understandable! Sometimes changes (may) take longer than we expect them to sadly. 

Its been MONTHS since its been "looking into it" / "discuted internaly to do it right" and whatever other BS ( its hard to see that in a different way at this point )

+ devs are fine to change that.. http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/93717-devs-team-communication-regarding-patch-1706/

 

it proove that's only on kakao EU side, and you ( not you personaly, but kakao in general, or whoever responsible of thoses decisions ) still do nothing 9_9 When without much issue you ( not you personaly, but kakao in general, or whoever responsible of thoses decisions ) add the auto loop, remove pk xp loss, totaly change awakening release schedule and so on.

but THIS, you ( not you personaly, but kakao in general, or whoever responsible of thoses decisions ) are not able to act ? i mean.. please...

 

Mah heart </3 Like I previously said, sometimes changes just take longer than we expect them to and I (yes, me personally) am very sorry that we have not communicated that to you. 

 

Edited by GM_Caramel

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Posted (edited)

I love your forum picture by the way, beautiful character....as for your comment there will be changes made to the forums is what the promise is. As per PM Jouska, "We are working on a system to link forum accounts to game accounts which once complete will allow for more accurate forum polls, but until then a poll can not be counted as the most reliable source" and I am personally assuming until that change... there will not be a definitive decision until we receive accurate votes. We are also working on bringing more of our GM's to better assist on the forums and report issues to our team. xD So you will be seeing much more from me. <3

 

Completely understandable! Sometimes changes (may) take longer than we expect them to sadly. 

You can also understand that still appear to be some kind of bullshit since that topic ( lvl pvp cap ) is discuted since MANY months, and the PA team said they are fine to provide that change since june.

Sure that precise thread request a poll, but at the same time, do you really ( at kakao EU ) one with ALL the thread disputing that no sense change ?

 

Like didnt you needed one to change the xp removal on pk right ?

Why that particular topic is still that delicate for you ( especialy now that awakening weapons push must players to go to lvl 56 + awakening skill change after 50 + no more xp loss on pvp death, so no more excuse of "pk for my grind spot".. etc )

 

I'am very curious.

 

Mah heart </3 Like I previously said, sometimes changes just take longer than we expect them to and I (yes, me personally) am very sorry that we have not communicated that to you. 

 

i still dont get it tho ( even if i wont hide i'am kinda irritated after all that time xD )  But well, thanks for your answer tho ^^

 

 

 ..

 

 

 

also forget one thing.

that change was made for, or after CBT2 ( i confess i dont remember exactly ), but you still, for sure, at least had the CBT1 before, so a quite large game exposure over internet ( various mmo site, so ALL CBT key give away on many site, youtube, twitch who heavyly streamed that game till release )

 

What do you think is most likely the reason of that sell boost ? a lvl 45 pvp cap change more or less hidden on that forum ? or the pretty important game exposure over internet because CBT & incoming release. ?

Edited by woots

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Posted

So nothing will happen till the linking happens and then maybe a poll will happen. Sigh. Why not just put a poll in game instead? Thats the best way since all players are in the game while only few players read the forums.

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Posted (edited)

 

 

Again, comprehension is a thing you need. I'm seriously laughing *at* you for thinking I ever said it's the reason why sales increased and your repeated and complete lack of understanding of what I actually said.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/suggest
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/likely?s=t
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/evidence?s=t

Edited by bakimono

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Posted (edited)

nvm, readed too fast, my bad xD

Edited by woots

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I love your forum picture by the way, beautiful character....as for your comment there will be changes made to the forums is what the promise is. As per PM Jouska, "We are working on a system to link forum accounts to game accounts which once complete will allow for more accurate forum polls, but until then a poll can not be counted as the most reliable source" and I am personally assuming until that change... there will not be a definitive change until we receive accurate votes.

Thank you, I am glad you like her. She is not mine, I just changed a template a bit. I know that forum accounts have been an issue since the start too and frankly I am surprised you didnt fix that yet as well. If you get any info about things that matter for this particular thread being addressed, please let us know.

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Thank you, I am glad you like her. She is not mine, I just changed a template a bit. I know that forum accounts have been an issue since the start too and frankly I am surprised you didnt fix that yet as well. If you get any info about things that matter for this particular thread being addressed, please let us know.

I will definitely let you all know. ^_^ 

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I love your forum picture by the way, beautiful character....as for your comment there will be changes made to the forums is what the promise is. As per PM Jouska, "We are working on a system to link forum accounts to game accounts which once complete will allow for more accurate forum polls, but until then a poll can not be counted as the most reliable source" and I am personally assuming until that change... there will not be a definitive change until we receive accurate votes. We are also working on bringing more of our GM's to better assist on the forums and report issues to our team. xD So you will be seeing much more from me. <3

Nice news ! Thanks for letting us know, linking accounts will help a lot removing some err ... "bad apples" ^_^

I like seeing @GM_Caramel very active in the forum and thank you for that, I'd like to take the chance to bring a dear matter to your attention:

As it says it's a matter close to the ♥ and I hope you can observe and bring it to the attention of the competent staff, please ♥♥♥

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Nice news ! Thanks for letting us know, linking accounts will help a lot removing some err ... "bad apples" ^_^

I like seeing @GM_Caramel very active in the forum and thank you for that, I'd like to take the chance to bring a dear matter to your attention:

As it says it's a matter close to the ♥ and I hope you can observe and bring it to the attention of the competent staff, please ♥♥♥

You're very welcome! I do my best to answer as many concerns as much as possible. As well as interact with you guys on a more personal level. ^_^ As a person who is legally blind, my prescription changes greatly as my eyes strain being on the computer most of my day, I tend to squint a lot to read! So I can sympathize with those who have eye issues. No guarantees as for now, but I will definitely write a report on this and push it towards my team. :) 

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Posted (edited)

Considering they had a huge boost in sales after doing that there's more evidence to suggest what I said vs what you're saying is likely.

Wow more story-telling.  How would you know they had a huge boost in sale as a result of the lvl 45 change when the lvl change was just one of many things that was released at the same time.  The answer is that you don't know and you just made it all up  But cool story bro.

And if you learned to think critically about what you type before pressing enter what I said about you confirming what I said might make more sense.
Kakao EU reached out to PA and PA offered a solution.

Where is that solution again? Oh right... never happened. Lets do the math on that one... Kakao EU finds a solution + PA offers a solution = Kakao stops said solution

Hmmm... So again, you're supporting what I said in the first place. Kakao EU doesn't call the shots, Kakao does.

Oh look, more story telling.  Where is the proof that Kakao stopped Kakao EU?  Sorry, your imagination does not count as proof.  You just made it all up.  But cool story bro.

Also, when you say Kakoa stopped the solution, I assume you mean Kakao headquarters which would be Kakao KR.  Kakao KR's vision of the pvp lvl is lvl 50 cause that's what's in BDO KR.  So why would they be opposed to changing our pvp lvl back to lvl 50?  If you're gonna lie and make up stories, at least make them somewhat believable, lol.

 

Completely understandable! Sometimes changes (may) take longer than we expect them to sadly. 

Mah heart </3 Like I previously said, sometimes changes just take longer than we expect them to and I (yes, me personally) am very sorry that we have not communicated that to you. 

Nice to see a GM reply to this.  BTW, someone on this thread (bakimono) is spreading rumors that Kakao EU is being stopped by Kakoa KR from changing the pvp lvl back to lvl 50.  Is this true? Or is he just spreading false rumors about your company?

Edited by CaptainCrunch
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Posted

 

Oh look, more story telling.  Where is the proof that Kakao stopped Kakao EU?  Sorry, your imagination does not count as proof.  You just made it all up.  But cool story bro.

Also, when you say Kakoa stopped the solution, I assume you mean Kakao headquarters which would be Kakao KR.  Kakao KR's vision of the pvp lvl is lvl 50 cause that's what's in BDO KR.  So why would they be opposed to changing our pvp lvl back to lvl 50?  If you're gonna lie and make up stories, at least make them somewhat believable, lol.

Look like he is just writting a story for a tv show.. xD

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