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I think it's time to bring back penalties for dying in owpvp

71 posts in this topic

Posted

50% loss of item dura. 

My full repairs are like 280k.

Everytime you kill me I could lose money.

Also burn gems on death like it used to.

Also maybe drop some turn ins in addition to the trade items.

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I think the systems fine as is. I ran Into this situation while leveling the black spirit sent me to a spot in hex sanctuary and told me to kill mobs for update. A ranger comes along and is basically shooting anything I try to kill and tells me to get out of his area.

I told him I have a quest here and this spot has a big circle with orange mobs that say kill me.

He said I don't care move anyway I said piss off so he flagged up and wooped my ass I came back and moved across the field to another spot in the circle and rinse repeat. So I swapped channels and guess what got murdered in same spot by a sorc.

So I have up on the quest and went to do some other quests for a bit and came back later.

Long story short I finally got the quest completed bit having quests in a spot known for great gear,accesorie drops can be an issue its not that I was trying to steal his mobs I was just questin.

Anywho that's my 2 cents

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I think the systems fine as is. I ran Into this situation while leveling the black spirit sent me to a spot in hex sanctuary and told me to kill mobs for update. A ranger comes along and is basically shooting anything I try to kill and tells me to get out of his area.

I told him I have a quest here and this spot has a big circle with orange mobs that say kill me.

He said I don't care move anyway I said piss off so he flagged up and wooped my ass I came back and moved across the field to another spot in the circle and rinse repeat. So I swapped channels and guess what got murdered in same spot by a sorc.

So I have up on the quest and went to do some other quests for a bit and came back later.

Long story short I finally got the quest completed bit having quests in a spot known for great gear,accesorie drops can be an issue its not that I was trying to steal his mobs I was just questin.

Anywho that's my 2 cents

You will find a lot of players like that in Hex Sanctuary and Bloody Monastry, they will be farming for Witches Earings and Marks of Shadow, they all think that the entire area belongs to them as they are level 57/58. So they just go round PK'ing all the lowbies.  I had it at bloody monastery, I had already changed channels twice, there was only me and a one other player in there, he was a 58 Ranger, I was on my 51 Musa minding my own business but that wasn't good enough.  He killed me 4 times then had to stop due to Karma, so he then tried to attack me, get my health low enough for the mobs to kill me.  There was absolutely NO need for that type of behaviour, the problem with BDO is, the gearing system encourages those players to bully anyone the want, for literally no reason.

I said in another thread, they need to let Witches/MOS's drop from Mediah locations as well as the current locations, that the godmode players aren't forced to mix with the filthy casuals.

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Posted

You will find a lot of players like that in Hex Sanctuary and Bloody Monastry, they will be farming for Witches Earings and Marks of Shadow, they all think that the entire area belongs to them as they are level 57/58. So they just go round PK'ing all the lowbies.  I had it at bloody monastery, I had already changed channels twice, there was only me and a one other player in there, he was a 58 Ranger, I was on my 51 Musa minding my own business but that wasn't good enough.  He killed me 4 times then had to stop due to Karma, so he then tried to attack me, get my health low enough for the mobs to kill me.  There was absolutely NO need for that type of behaviour, the problem with BDO is, the gearing system encourages those players to bully anyone the want, for literally no reason.

I said in another thread, they need to let Witches/MOS's drop from Mediah locations as well as the current locations, that the godmode players aren't forced to mix with the filthy casuals.

i agree or make a higher level item similar to them in media area

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Posted (edited)

You will find a lot of players like that in Hex Sanctuary and Bloody Monastry, they will be farming for Witches Earings and Marks of Shadow, they all think that the entire area belongs to them as they are level 57/58. So they just go round PK'ing all the lowbies.  I had it at bloody monastery, I had already changed channels twice, there was only me and a one other player in there, he was a 58 Ranger, I was on my 51 Musa minding my own business but that wasn't good enough.  He killed me 4 times then had to stop due to Karma, so he then tried to attack me, get my health low enough for the mobs to kill me.  There was absolutely NO need for that type of behaviour, the problem with BDO is, the gearing system encourages those players to bully anyone the want, for literally no reason.

I said in another thread, they need to let Witches/MOS's drop from Mediah locations as well as the current locations, that the godmode players aren't forced to mix with the filthy casuals.

Some people are just dicks, I get that. Some people have been farming marks for 6 hours and just get annoyed when a random comes in and ruins their monotonous rotation, that they're grown to do while watching Netflix at the same time.

These type of people are never going to go away, regardless of what changes are made to owpvp. At least before the xp change, you could go down there with 4 buddies and make that 58 lose an hour of progression by ganging up on him. That's the real problem here. Higher level players had more to lose, there was potential consequences for them bullying lower levels. Players were cautious before stepping on someone else's toes before this change. It prevented much of the behaviour you described as "absolutely NO need" for. With this game not showing a level/gearscore above your head, it's hard to judge a player's potential until you see them in action. There was a lot more suspense in the world, and lead to a ton more random encounters. It was fun to just go out to abandoned monastery, and later sausans, because something always went down. Now players just stake our their personal rotation and actively try to avoid each other... What fun.

Edited by Sandy

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Posted

I love it imo, no one can push me out of a farming spot, and if they kill me 5x, I can just acall in a guild to gangbang them

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Posted

Don't know what the sink is about but in Karma V2 the experience loss was to be removed if a player is not flagged PvP. If both parties are flagged neither one will lose experience.

The buff was to given in which they (the non-flagged player)  were immune to experience loss from PvE but since they were not flagged PvP they could not lose experience either way. Then someone says they added some secret flag that says the attacked player is flagged PvP automatically so I don't know where that came from. That was the original chart and as far as I know Krama v2 was never completely implemented or it was so screwed up they had to make some changes to the old system to satisfy the majority.

either way it was planned to remove PvP death penalty for being PK'ed.

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Posted

Should be 4% exp lose penalty as in Lineage 2.

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Posted

Best compromise I've seen is still force respawning in major city(Heidel, Altinova, or Calpheon only) on PK death.

person who kills you can choose respawn point. how is that! or say if its a really low level player. you can actually give their character a command that locks their auto path to some placeof your choosing with a limited max distance.

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Posted

Just put like this:
Respawn on node = xp loss
Respawn on city = no xp loss

I hate the idea of giving over-geared players the ability to severely punish newer players, but this is actually pretty ideal. It prevents potential issues on both sides of the spectrum, and will continue to do so down the road.

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Posted

Should be 4% exp lose penalty as in Lineage 2.

And with dropping full items (also from inventory) that can be looted, when you're red and die.

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Posted

Nope.

Exp loss = desert of pvp and useless frustration.

no exp loss = funny and more pvp. and more Party exp with random. cause ppl are forced to party for good exp :P

With good gear partying for exp doesn't make sense now.

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Posted (edited)

Yeah no, I refuse to be punished for simply turning up at a grind spot to see if there is room.

It now seems to have evolved from "spot taken, move on" (lol), into a kill on sight mentality, because people are feeling -----y when in a group of 3 or because they got their gear past +15. 

That's not "defending your grind spot" , that's just being a bully. I refuse to be punished because someone has a lack of social skills or an inferiority complex they feel the need to cure with instantly jumping onto anything that moves.  It also has nothing to do with pvp as far as I am concerned, there is no fight if you kill someone in 5 seconds flat because you are a bunch of high lvl people in high end gear. 

So from that point of view. No, penalties for people who get killed by other players are not justified.  It simply adds to the frustration. You can not pvp because the hyper competitive guys stomp you to the ground, which personally I am okay with, but you can not pve because they also hog the grinding spots.Though I must wonder what they are still doing at Sausan's at lvl 56/57. Valencia is out, move on already. And sorry, but there are better crafting games out there than BDO. :/

And all those people posting about "Thanks, I can just grief kill your mobs and you can't do anything about it, because no penalties." are just baiting exactly those people who then go on to KOS folks..If you get baited that easily, perhaps you might want to rethink your priorities. There is plenty of room for people to grind around each other so long as folk don't act greedy. 

Edited by Caelin
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Posted

they sneaked in Crystal destruction in OWPVP. no need to add XP as well.

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Posted

56/57. Valencia is out, move on already. And sorry, but there are better crafting games out there than BDO. :/

Actually, Sausan's is still the fastest exp when you are lvl 56/57. The only thing that might be a little faster is pirate if you have full +18 gear. I get over 2% at lvl 57, which is insane.

There is plenty of room for people to grind around each other so long as folk don't act greedy. 

There wasn't enough room BEFORE Valencia came out, what makes you think there's enough room for two people now that I can clear the entire 5 man rotation completely alone? I already have to take extra small camps so I don't wait on respawns, and you're sitting here trying to tell me there's enough room for two people? Unless I want to afk for 50% of my playtime, there isn't.

The facts are as follows: Since the exp loss was removed, pvp has been reduced DRAMATICALLY. If there is a ranger, even with 40 less AP than someone else who is NOT a ranger, they can push them out of any grind spot just because of how rangers function(fast attacks w/ incredibly short animations), and there is absolutely no way for other classes to defend their spot, even if you are better than them in anyway and can kill them easily. Even as a 202 AP witch, if a ranger is contesting me with 140 AP I will lose the spot because my cast times are so long the mobs will be below 50% HP by the time my spell casts. Normally, I'd just PK them, but what's the point when they run back in 10s? They can just karma bomb me, since you get a maximum of 4-5 kills before going red, despite being weaker in every way, because they happened to choose ranger? All this results in is no one flagging up and pvping for a spot anymore because no matter what, if you flag you lose. 

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Posted (edited)

The facts are as follows: Since the exp loss was removed, pvp has been reduced DRAMATICALLY. If there is a ranger, even with 40 less AP than someone else who is NOT a ranger, they can push them out of any grind spot just because of how rangers function(fast attacks w/ incredibly short animations), and there is absolutely no way for other classes to defend their spot, even if you are better than them in anyway and can kill them easily. Even as a 202 AP witch, if a ranger is contesting me with 140 AP I will lose the spot because my cast times are so long the mobs will be below 50% HP by the time my spell casts. Normally, I'd just PK them, but what's the point when they run back in 10s? They can just karma bomb me, since you get a maximum of 4-5 kills before going red, despite being weaker in every way, because they happened to choose ranger? All this results in is no one flagging up and pvping for a spot anymore because no matter what, if you flag you lose. 

I would politely disagree with you there. I've gone pirates at lvl 54/55 and it was much faster XP than Sousans, mob density and respawn rate were perfectly adequate for a 5 people group. And none of us had +18 gear. I believe, and you are welcome to correct me there. Most people go to Sousan out of sheer convenience. 

As for "defending your spot".  People get shirty over missing a couple of groups in what they call their rotation, which encompasses the entire camp. Sorry but if that is not greedy then I don't know. There appears to be this obsession with getting that perfectly smooth rotation at all times. The way I look at it, it's not how it works. In an MMO there will always be people who will be playing along side you and you can not expect, and as far as I am concerned should not expect to get everything you want at all times, every time. I don't mind sharing groups of mobs here and there so long as everyone gets to progress one way or another. But that only works when both sides agree not to be dicks about it. 

I will say it again a bit more plainly. If you require the entire camp of mobs to get progression, you are in the wrong place. Move on, enjoy the game. :) 

 

Edited by Caelin
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The facts are as follows: Since the exp loss was removed, pvp has been reduced DRAMATICALLY. If there is a ranger, even with 40 less AP than someone else who is NOT a ranger, they can push them out of any grind spot just because of how rangers function(fast attacks w/ incredibly short animations), and there is absolutely no way for other classes to defend their spot, even if you are better than them in anyway and can kill them easily. Even as a 202 AP witch, if a ranger is contesting me with 140 AP I will lose the spot because my cast times are so long the mobs will be below 50% HP by the time my spell casts. Normally, I'd just PK them, but what's the point when they run back in 10s? They can just karma bomb me, since you get a maximum of 4-5 kills before going red, despite being weaker in every way, because they happened to choose ranger? All this results in is no one flagging up and pvping for a spot anymore because no matter what, if you flag you lose. 

Sounds like you'll have to play smarter. Word was getting around on outside MMO forums that it was pointless to buy BDO because people were PKing you to take your grind spot away (move or die or simply just kill you without warning when you were already there) or while fishing, training horses, gathering the list goes on and on and on en mass so you couldn't progress to see end game content anyways. If people aren't buying the game or staying in the game because they can't progress to enjoy endgame content they aren't  making purchases in the cash shop now are they? Potential new players weren't even purchasing the game and were being driven away in droves. From a business standpoint that's not acceptable and if they have to ruffle some PKers feathers for a steady inflow of new and remaining players that's what they'll do and rightfully so.

PKing randoms was always meant to be the rare event to bring a spice of excitement to the game as the Devs themselves said even before Beta, not a routine game mechanic which it has become in the West. Had we not went so PKing randoms crazy the 1% probably would have stayed. I confess I myself went a bit overboard on my Ranger in that regard. We both know PKing at the hot grindspots accounts for 5% tops of the PKing randoms that goes on in game. Daum has the records, they know who got PKd and where so there's no use being coy about it.

We all have to adjust our play styles, the cream will rise to the top. I grinded the red off of my part time Ranger and she's not going back. So you gotta play a little smarter now boo freakin hoo. The day I can't out DPS or out think a scrub over grinding on a pack of mobs is the day I need to hang it up.

I would politely disagree with you there. I've gone pirates at lvl 54/55 and it was much faster XP than Sousans, mob density and respawn rate were perfectly adequate for a 5 people group. And none of us had +18 gear. I believe, and you are welcome to correct me there. Most people go to Sousan out of sheer convenience. 

As for "defending your spot".  People get shirty over missing a couple of groups in what they call their rotation, which encompasses the entire camp. Sorry but if that is not greedy then I don't know. There appears to be this obsession with getting that perfectly smooth rotation at all times. The way I look at it, it's not how it works. In an MMO there will always be people who will be playing along side you and you can not expect, and as far as I am concerned should not expect to get everything you want at all times, every time. I don't mind sharing groups of mobs here and there so long as everyone gets to progress one way or another. But that only works when both sides agree not to be dicks about it. 

I will say it again a bit more plainly. If you require the entire camp of mobs to get progression, you are in the wrong place. Move on, enjoy the game. :) 

 

Very well said, if a player needs packs of mobs all to themselves go play Witcher 3 or Skyrim. In an MMO you have to have a different mentality, use your brain a bit more as you are playing alongside others. The world isn't yours and yours alone. Or don't use your brain and stand there fuming while you get KSd or go PK nuts, lose your Karma and go red while the other player keeps coming back every 30 seconds. BDO gives you that option as well. Myself I prefer to play smart instead of banging my head into the wall and then complaining about a headache like I see the 1% complainers doing. 

I swear all the people sobbing about randoms KSing a few mobs away from them makes me wonder if they have ever played an MMO before? BDO even lets you channel hop which many other MMOs don't. It actually makes me pity them in a way. 

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I would politely disagree with you there. I've gone pirates at lvl 54/55 and it was much faster XP than Sousans, mob density and respawn rate were perfectly adequate for a 5 people group. And none of us had +18 gear. I believe, and you are welcome to correct me there. Most people go to Sousan out of sheer convenience. 

As for "defending your spot".  People get shirty over missing a couple of groups in what they call their rotation, which encompasses the entire camp. Sorry but if that is not greedy then I don't know. There appears to be this obsession with getting that perfectly smooth rotation at all times. The way I look at it, it's not how it works. In an MMO there will always be people who will be playing along side you and you can not expect, and as far as I am concerned should not expect to get everything you want at all times, every time. I don't mind sharing groups of mobs here and there so long as everyone gets to progress one way or another. But that only works when both sides agree not to be dicks about it. 

I will say it again a bit more plainly. If you require the entire camp of mobs to get progression, you are in the wrong place. Move on, enjoy the game. :) 

 

It really depends on your class and AP. At 202 AP, like I said, I can clear the entire 5 man rotation at Sausan's as a horse witch. Pirates is a bit slower simply because the groups are not as big and clumped up, even as a 202 witch sausans is faster. This will hold true for most classes.

You can sit here and call it greedy all you want, but sitting afk for 50% of the time waiting for respawns is not an efficient use of time. There is no point in sharing. 

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It really depends on your class and AP. At 202 AP, like I said, I can clear the entire 5 man rotation at Sausan's as a horse witch. Pirates is a bit slower simply because the groups are not as big and clumped up, even as a 202 witch sausans is faster. This will hold true for most classes.

You can sit here and call it greedy all you want, but sitting afk for 50% of the time waiting for respawns is not an efficient use of time. There is no point in sharing. 

I don't think I can make you see my point of view and that' is okay too. But it seems to me that you play for easy mode alone. I don't know how you haven't quit out of boredom yet. 

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It really depends on your class and AP. At 202 AP, like I said, I can clear the entire 5 man rotation at Sausan's as a horse witch. Pirates is a bit slower simply because the groups are not as big and clumped up, even as a 202 witch sausans is faster. This will hold true for most classes.

You can sit here and call it greedy all you want, but sitting afk for 50% of the time waiting for respawns is not an efficient use of time. There is no point in sharing. 

So if it's not easymode it's not fun, right?  You could go to Valencia and grind with the big boys but no, there you could have competition. It's easier to be a witch on a horse and claim a whole zone. God forbid you actually have to put some effort for your reward. In the meantime, you are hampering the progression of other players who like a challenge and want to have FUN with their friends instead of being mindless grinding machines. 

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Posted (edited)

So if it's not easymode it's not fun, right?  You could go to Valencia and grind with the big boys but no, there you could have competition. It's easier to be a witch on a horse and claim a whole zone. God forbid you actually have to put some effort for your reward. In the meantime, you are hampering the progression of other players who like a challenge and want to have FUN with their friends instead of being mindless grinding machines. 

There is no competition in Valencia. You'd know that if you actually went out there. The mobs aren't much harder than Sausan's were pre-valencia patch, and I can grind them almost braindead with my current gear.

The only thing you grind Valencia for are the accessories. And until all your weapon/armor are TRI, it is a waste of time for you to be there. You make less exp, less money, and it's further away. Since all my armor is not yet TRI, why would I be there when I make more money AND exp at Sausan's or Pirates? Can you come up with a single reason for me to be grinding anywhere in Valencia?

The whole problem I have at the moment is that there *isn't* any competition because there isn't any pvp. If someone shows up, I ignore them unless they are a ranger w/ 160 or higher AP, at which point, I just switch channels or go do something else, despite the fact I could easily beat them in a 1v1. Winning in pvp is punished harshly, while losing is not punished at all. It's not balanced. There also isn't anyway to push other players out(unless you are a ranger), BESIDES just karma bombing them. And I don't want to have to be a -----ing ----- and suicide over and over to get a grind spot when I have the ability to pvp instead.

I don't want the exp penalty back. I just want some kind of punishment for dying to someone in flagged pvp. Personally, I think forcing the person to respawn in a major city would suffice. That way, you don't lose progress, you are just inconvenienced. 

Edited by Walk

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There is no competition in Valencia. You'd know that if you actually went out there. The mobs aren't much harder than Sausan's were pre-valencia patch, and I can grind them almost braindead with my current gear.

The only thing you grind Valencia for are the accessories. And until all your weapon/armor are TRI, it is a waste of time for you to be there. You make less exp, less money, and it's further away. Since all my armor is not yet TRI, why would I be there when I make more money AND exp at Sausan's or Pirates? Can you come up with a single reason for me to be grinding anywhere in Valencia?

The whole problem I have at the moment is that there *isn't* any competition because there isn't any pvp. If someone shows up, I ignore them unless they are a ranger w/ 160 or higher AP, at which point, I just switch channels or go do something else, despite the fact I could easily beat them in a 1v1. Winning in pvp is punished harshly, while losing is not punished at all. It's not balanced. There also isn't anyway to push other players out(unless you are a ranger), BESIDES just karma bombing them. And I don't want to have to be a -----ing ----- and suicide over and over to get a grind spot when I have the ability to pvp instead.

So wait, your saying that your only worry in this game is a ranger with 160 AP no matter where you are. FIne ok, we all get it, my question is: why do you have to go to a "lowbie" zone and be an actual obstacle to people, when you can easily avoid it? Yes, it might not be efficient, your bank, your dog and your friends are closer to Sausan and so on and so forth..but ...so what.? Instead of being afk half a day as a consequence of not being "superefficient" why don't you take a walk, smell the flowers and think about the fact that this game is not about YOU. It's about a community that you are part of, and if the price for your efficiency is that you'll be even more alone in a few weeks, then i ask you, was it worth it?

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I don't want the exp penalty back. I just want some kind of punishment for dying to someone in flagged pvp. Personally, I think forcing the person to respawn in a major city would suffice. That way, you don't lose progress, you are just inconvenienced. 

And that is my whole point. Why should I be inconvenienced, because someone else doesn't feel like sharing?(Or moving on) Or because they feel they have to KOS as I walk past them, because heavens forbid I might actually kill something they consider "theirs" (lol), or just because they feel like it? No, thank you. It is neither fair, not particularly smart from a game development perspective as Pizzarolls explained. 

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Posted (edited)

So wait, your saying that your only worry in this game is a ranger with 160 AP no matter where you are. FIne ok, we all get it, my question is: why do you have to go to a "lowbie" zone and be an actual obstacle to people, when you can easily avoid it? Yes, it might not be efficient, your bank, your dog and your friends are closer to Sausan and so on and so forth..but ...so what.? Instead of being afk half a day as a consequence of not being "superefficient" why don't you take a walk, smell the flowers and think about the fact that this game is not about YOU. It's about a community that you are part of, and if the price for your efficiency is that you'll be even more alone in a few weeks, then i ask you, was it worth it?

lol this is some next level troll

And that is my whole point. Why should I be inconvenienced, because someone else doesn't feel like sharing?(Or moving on) Or because they feel they have to KOS as I walk past them, because heavens forbid I might actually kill something they consider "theirs" (lol), or just because they feel like it? No, thank you. It is neither fair, not particularly smart from a game development perspective as Pizzarolls explained. 

Why should you be punished for losing? What the -----? Every single game in existence, minus this one, punishes you for losing. Even world of -----ing warcraft punishes you for losing. Even super casual single player games punish you for losing. What the ----- kind of game rewards losing and not winning? I don't even want to respond in this thread anymore, why are you people even in a -----ing pvp subforum? These opinions have gone beyond full retard at this point. 

Edited by Walk

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Posted

lol this is some next level troll

Why should you be punished for losing? What the -----? Every single game in existence, minus this one, punishes you for losing. Even world of -----ing warcraft punishes you for losing. Even super casual single player games punish you for losing. What the ----- kind of game rewards losing and not winning? I don't even want to respond in this thread anymore, why are you people even in a -----ing pvp subforum? These opinions have gone beyond full retard at this point. 

It's okay. Using your words is hard work. I understand. 

Then again, I could always come by on my Ranger and "inconvenience" you. *rolls eyes*

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