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IMPORTANT / Pls Read when u dont like +16 and higher Enchant


169 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

 

Liverto 80AP

OH 22AP

Full Ulti Armor 180ishDP

MoS Witch 20AP

DUO Bares PRI Gladiator/TRI Bares 13AP

Combined 315

If you opt for mixed AP/DP sets you'll have even more combined stats

That's already passed base +15 though, talking entry level i don't think it's relevant to include Ults and a PRI glad or TRI bares in the total

Also you're more likely using an Acc+ OH at that point

 

 

Edited by muscarine

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Posted (edited)

Logic is this : Since we do not have P2W and in our version it is just about impossible to get 120 failstacks so that chart is nonsense for our version. Also people did ask for changes in 15-20 enchanting not 1-15... they didn't touch that.

Why are you assuming enchanting chances are same for accessories and gear? force enchanting for accessories plz .

By that logic why isn't our MoS drop rate 10x of KR because we don't have P2W boxes? Pls.

30 AP differance ... ( i said duo ogre btw) 17-18 is 15 AP differance and 24 DP so its 39 - how is that  ALMOST DOUBLE? next - everyone know that AP is much more powerful then DP, so if you focus on your weapon (surely under 100mil) you are looking at 5 AP 24 DP differance ... how that does compare to pure 30 AP differance from accessories?

If you say DUO Ogre then the difference is only 25.... How many players have full TRI + DUO Ogre? Everyone has full PRI.

Weapon 17->18 = 12 AP

Offhand = 6 AP

Armor piece = 8 DP each

I have DUO/TRI mix so I know those numbers are correct. The difference between full +17 and full +18 is 50 AP+DP.

And no, +15->+17 is under 100m per piece, +17->+18 is 200-400m per piece on average.

 

What the hell are you even talking about? Why even quote me if you're going to pull out fully made up numbers????

 

 

That's already passed base +15 though, talking entry level i don't think it's relevant to include Ults and a PRI glad or TRI bares in the total

Also you're more likely using an Acc+ OH at that point

Combined stats is a flawed system anyway, the point is if you're not in the 310 range, you're probably not even full +15 ultimate. Ultimate stones are like 5m for armor right now, so you have no excuse not to have them even as a moderate player. 

Edited by Featherine

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Posted

Combined stats is a flawed system anyway, the point is if you're not in the 310 range, you're probably not even full +15 ultimate. Ultimate stones are like 5m for armor right now, so you have no excuse not to have them even as a moderate player. 

That's exactly the point, your perception of time/efficiency in BDO makes you say there's no excuse in that case. The playerbase is distributed along this scale. For some players making their Ult is an achievement. For some others it's trivial. It's all a matter of individual goals rather than being mad because someone is further down the line than you are.

I got my Bheg gloves yesterday, if i listen to the forums i should be QQing because some players already have TRI, or heck probably PEN Bheg gloves. Well no, i'm happy. I can still hold my own in many OWPvP fights despites standing 0 chance in some others. I just don't understand why people can't be happy with what they achieve at their own rythm. The game is not going anywhere, if you're not there today, tomorrow you'll be closer. Hence why my former comparison with EVE. You can still achieve a lot at your own level, everything you do on an individual scale is relevant. It's not like WoW where you loot some super rare item you're bound to trash 2 days later because it's completely irrelevant in the current expansion, 99.9% of the previous content is useless. In BDO most of what you do and what you get is useful one way or another.

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Posted

You fail to mention korea players had years to get here.....we had months.

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Posted (edited)

The game is not going anywhere, if you're not there today, tomorrow you'll be closer. Hence why my former comparison with EVE. You can still achieve a lot at your own level, everything you do on an individual scale is relevant. It's not like WoW where you loot some super rare item you're bound to trash 2 days later because it's completely irrelevant in the current expansion, 99.9% of the previous content is useless. In BDO most of what you do and what you get is useful one way or another.

Gear treadmill reset comes at a different issue than what BDO has. In BDO every minute of time you invest makes you stronger, but every minute of time you don't invest makes you weaker. This is permanent. In games like WoW it resets every expansion, meaning every year or so your performance resets, like a new season in sports. Which one is "better" is.... opinions.

It all goes back to what I said earlier: the gear gap has to be within a margin for the game to be enjoyable. If you don't accept that highlighted statement, then logically speaking you won't mind if the game goes full P2W selling infinitely stacking permanent buffs in the cash shop either.

Grinding for 1-2 months as a moderate-core new player to obtain gear within 20% power margin of endgame top players is an acceptable gap. In BDO, within a small number of months, that's going to become increasingly impossible.

Edited by Featherine

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Posted

Gear treadmill reset comes at a different issue than what BDO has. In BDO every minute of time you invest makes you stronger, but every minute of time you don't invest makes you weaker. This is permanent. In games like WoW it resets every expansion, meaning every year or so your performance resets, like a new season in sports. Which one is "better" is.... opinions.

It all goes back to what I said earlier: the gear gap has to be within a margin for the game to be enjoyable. If you don't accept that highlighted statement, then logically speaking you won't mind if the game goes full P2W selling infinitely stacking permanent buffs in the cash shop either.

Well i actually do agree, although i wouldn't go as far as to say "every minute you don't invest makes you weaker" because 1/ there's still a ceiling and 2/ they do work on catch up mechanics like the recent EXP increase and such.

Thing is that margin is also bound to opinions, i for one find perfectly acceptable that someone else could outgear me to the point where all i can do is run away. But because there's a ceiling, and because i know i'm slowly working on closing the gap. If someone's already full PEN (i doubt it happened yet) he's not going anywhere.

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Posted

Thing is that margin is also bound to opinions, i for one find perfectly acceptable that someone else could outgear me to the point where all i can do is run away. But because there's a ceiling, and because i know i'm slowly working on closing the gap. If someone's already full PEN (i doubt it happened yet) he's not going anywhere.

Except in that case you'll be getting 1 shotted :(

Full PEN is years away for most which doesn't really help because it's basically reachable only near the end of the lifespan of this game.

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Posted

Except in that case you'll be getting 1 shotted :(

Full PEN is years away for most which doesn't really help because it's basically reachable only near the end of the lifespan of this game.

In the current game AND in game market's state, yes, on top of player access to silver sources. It's bound to evolve though, most likely at the benefit of weaker players, but certainly not in the form of gimmenao and hopefully not p2w-able.

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In the current game AND in game market's state, yes, on top of player access to silver sources. It's bound to evolve though, most likely at the benefit of weaker players, but certainly not in the form of gimmenao and hopefully not p2w-able.

I cannot predict the future, so I only state what is the case now. What's happening now and what's bound to happen if nothing is done about it will hopefully wake Daum up. That's the best we can do.

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Posted (edited)

Gear/level based PvP in MMOs is always a haves vs. have-nots situation. If you're generally a have-not (whether due to time, lack of interest, or bad luck), just PvP in a level game; there are a ton of those out there. Or only PvP in a level situation, such as battlegrounds/fields, WvW, what have you. I love BDO, but I think it needs some truly leveled PvP content. Top PvPers in this game *might* be due to skill and *probably* is due to gear/levels. It'd be nice to see a top PvPer and know that it's due to their skill because they have no other advantage in that situation. Just my 2 cents.

Edit: For PvE, eh who cares? :) I mean, it's fun to see your rankings in the various life skills and be the top geared grinder in the game and such. But not being tops in those categories doesn't really affect your fun factor like it does in PvP situations.

Edited by Ahni

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Posted (edited)

 

 

By that logic why isn't our MoS drop rate 10x of KR because we don't have P2W boxes? Pls.

If you say DUO Ogre then the difference is only 25.... How many players have full TRI + DUO Ogre? Everyone has full PRI.

Weapon 17->18 = 12 AP

Offhand = 6 AP

Armor piece = 8 DP each

I have DUO/TRI mix so I know those numbers are correct. The difference between full +17 and full +18 is 50 AP+DP.

And no, +15->+17 is under 100m per piece, +17->+18 is 200-400m per piece on average.

 

What the hell are you even talking about? Why even quote me if you're going to pull out fully made up numbers????

 

 

 

Combined stats is a flawed system anyway, the point is if you're not in the 310 range, you're probably not even full +15 ultimate. Ultimate stones are like 5m for armor right now, so you have no excuse not to have them even as a moderate player. 

 

Are our MoS drops same as pre-Valencia KR? do they have Mudster to drop them?

I apologize i admit i didn't check the values on DB. Its 18 AP and 32 DP then vs 25 AP. Unless they have boss armor that is. Who has that? it was over month ago when GM posted first guy to pass 180 visible AP (let alone the red power and black spirit crystals .. i wonder if casuals use those.... The gap was already there

The cost is for -17->18 is not accurate. Both uses infalted shard cost and KR data that could be very well hoax. I do not have large data sample atm but so far those that did try TRI on 40+ failstack did get it on first try. I guess time will tell ?

 

But finally ... why are everyone so frustrated about it ? Acting like everyone except them would be hardcore capable of oneshotign them. If 5% is hardcore then the rest 95% you can have fair fight against.

Edited by Ercila

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Posted

I agree with this post 100% i did most of the Valencia story line with +15 gear its not that hard

Casuals always gonna cry cuz they think they so hardcore and awesome cuz of casual western mmo's

 if they bothered to actually play the game they would see its not that hard or bad at all

I dont have +18 stuff but im happy its here cuz it gives me something to work at and have fun in this game by improving my char even more.

ppl just want things handed to them and wanna make crazy threats if they don't get their way

they even make up stupid math bs that doesn't even make sense to try to fool dumb people into thinking they are right

the system is awesome and a lot of people love it the people that dont like it are used to getting max gear in a week of grinding dungeons in causal western mmo's 

we like the fact this is a korean title if we wanted to play another western wow clone there are thousands to choose from

this is BDO and its different and i love it for that reason

this

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Posted

I saw it:

Untitled1213.thumb.png.4c2b64c7b064c4b7d

But, why is it a Blade, bro? What happen to your Amulet?

Ah Amulett Die xD

Its +16 but i use my Sorc only for Wb now^^

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Posted

The cost is for -17->18 is not accurate. Both uses infalted shard cost and KR data that could be very well hoax. I do not have large data sample atm but so far those that did try TRI on 40+ failstack did get it on first try. I guess time will tell ?

I'm not going to waste my time on bogus claims that make no sense. If you don't believe the data we have then don't, but remember that just because you don't believe something doesn't change what's happening.

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Posted (edited)

I hate RNG and RNG hates me.

It doesn't matter if you perfectly know statistics, it's RNG on so few trials (for an individual player) that RNG throws any confidence in your calculus out of the window.

Add in accessory destruction, item enchantment de-level and the heavy grind gating, and I do am sure that me and I believe a good chunk players will quit within 6 months if it stays like this.

If you like the game and want to keep it alive you should all voice your concerns against a progression dominated by RNG, not praising it and make do with it as if it was a good thing.

PS: if you accept it the next thing will be the failstacks on the cash shop, then you will have your p2w game deserted of most of this community except some few whales left

Edited by Nessuno

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Posted

You're wrong for 2 reasons:

  1. The step gap per enchant tier is 7x. If hardcores continue to have 10x more resources (ironically what your post implied about release), then catch up will never occur.
  2. RNG now has a heavy effect. Before if you just tried to +14->+15 over and over you'll still get it within 100million. Now however, the lucky 1% gets it in 3 tries, while the unlucky could spend over 10 tries on just the +17->+18 part. If we're talking whole set, you're looking a variance of billions of extra gold spent by virtue of being unlucky.

I know general principles sound nice, but when the hard numbers are taken into account of the analyses, the variance and cost attached to what's happening now is not very promising. Look at the numbers:

+15 full set is like 200mil? If you spend more than 400million or less than 100million you're probably lying. Statistics prevents that because 90 total actions exist here.

Just +17->+18 PER PIECE is between 200-400mil assuming average luck, and because there's only 3 actions rather than 90, you're looking at huge variance. The law of large numbers do not apply to +15->+18. A player could reasonably get it in 30mil and another could be without it after almost a billion.

For a full +18 set, you're looking at a 3bil investment on average.

What's worse? It could be 500mil, and it could also be 10bil.

 

If you make 5m an hour at sausans, you can have full +15 in 40 hours. It will take you (on average) approximately 600 hours on sausan to get full +18. This is with market value, currently the mats are worth far more than market value but it will go down eventually... hopefully.

hitting 18 from +15 is around 140 millions depending in the item. Kzarks Boss armor will cost more ofc but 200-400 Millions is exaggerated

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Posted (edited)

hitting 18 from +15 is around 140 millions depending in the item. Kzarks Boss armor will cost more ofc but 200-400 Millions is exaggerated

Do you have the numbers? I worked it out using the KR tables, and they completely disagree with what you're saying. Unless you're just talking cheap green grade armor.

Edited by Featherine

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Posted

 <bitter-grandpa-mode>You kids have it too easy. Back in my day...</bitter-grandpa-mode>

Lol

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Posted

 

tetfails.png

I saw that yesterday, I seriously thought the guy gave up after the first 2 TET fails and just went ham.

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Posted

Do you have the numbers? I worked it out using the KR tables, and they completely disagree with what you're saying. Unless you're just talking cheap green grade armor.

okay 200-300millions seems more like it and ofc it depends if you are using cronestones or not. The first people who went for +18 had the attempts nearly for free with cronestones so in total everyone who could not afford to upgrade to tri or tet  the first day will have to do much more to reach the hardcore player but like op said I am sure most will keep up in 1 month or less. Always depends on the rng ofc. One guy in our guild could not get to pri with 60 concentrated stones not one single pri item but now he has like 5+ twinks with 40+ failstacks :)

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Posted (edited)

okay 200-300millions seems more like it and ofc it depends if you are using cronestones or not. The first people who went for +18 had the attempts nearly for free with cronestones so in total everyone who could not afford to upgrade to tri or tet  the first day will have to do much more to reach the hardcore player but like op said I am sure most will keep up in 1 month or less. Always depends on the rng ofc. One guy in our guild could not get to pri with 60 concentrated stones not one single pri item but now he has like 5+ twinks with 40+ failstacks :)

The secret is if the KR tables were right, going TRI with Cron stones at 38m a piece only saved you 2m compared to just RNG. They actually didn't get as big of an advantage as you think they did. But I guess they did save a lot of deleveling headache.

Edited by Featherine

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Posted

I saw that yesterday, I seriously thought the guy gave up after the first 2 TET fails and just went ham.

He failed every single TET on that screenshot intentionally except the last one.

Do you have the numbers? I worked it out using the KR tables, and they completely disagree with what you're saying. Unless you're just talking cheap green grade armor.

The numbers you're using are misleading because you don't use weapon stones, armor stones, sculptures, and cookies at the value you set them at. If you earn them yourself, their values are much lower than what they are on the market.

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Posted

The numbers you're using are misleading because you don't use weapon stones, armor stones, sculptures, and cookies at the value you set them at. If you earn them yourself, their values are much lower than what they are on the market.

Fair enough? Although I do question the value of farming those things if they're really valued that low to you.

I set 200k/300k stones which is right now the market price including 35% tax. Sharps/hards are not obtainable anymore at any reasonable rate, so 8m/4m I set is reasonable. If you want to argue the prices are lower then you can do that, but 35% less of 300mil is still 200mil. 

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Fair enough? Although I do question the value of farming those things if they're really valued that low to you.

I set 200k/300k stones which is right now the market price including 35% tax. Sharps/hards are not obtainable anymore at any reasonable rate, so 8m/4m I set is reasonable. If you want to argue the prices are lower then you can do that, but 35% less of 300mil is still 200mil. 

"reasonable rate"? whats a "reasonable rate"?

stones are cheaper than that if you do discos.

even cheaper if you find them yourself.

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Posted (edited)

"reasonable rate"? whats a "reasonable rate"?

stones are cheaper than that if you do discos.

If I can sell stones for 300k/400k how can they be cheaper if I do Discos? Since I'll still get 200/300 back if I sell my stones after tax.

Sharp bids here are from my estimates going into the low mid 10~20 mil range and considering how scarce they are, so how is 8m I set not reasonable?

Edited by Featherine

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